Bombs Found on Airplanes!

[Bob Hubbard]

Mail Bombs Traveled on Passenger Flights, Airline Official Says

• Investigators Almost Missed 1 Bomb
• Manhunt Grows as Plot Terror Ties Probed
• Tough Obstacles in Yemen Terror Fight
• Did 'The System Work' in Terror Plot?

Bomb flew on passenger planes, airline says

• Expert: Bombs could go off on own
• Explosive of choice for terrorists

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I like how they went through multiple planes before being found.

I feel safer already.

 

[Big Don]

I like how they went through multiple planes before being found.

Those highly trained TSA rent-a-morons at work!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I've been saying this for years. I've said it here, I've said it on many forums. Cargo going into passenger planes does not get searched well, or at all in many cases. In the USA, Congress has ordered the TSA to do 100% searching of all cargo going onto passenger planes REPEATEDLY and the TSA has failed to do so, while still implementing more and more security theater for passengers. It is all designed to make us feel safe, not to provide actual security. If you have a fence around 3 sides of a 4-sided property, you do not have 75% security, you have NO security. Anyone who has ever worked in security knows this.

I've said it for years. I used to get arguments from people who disagreed with me. Nobody seems to want to do that anymore. The TSA are a criminal organization of thugs and thieves, in my opinion. Disband them immediately and prosecute the leaders of the TSA for treason.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Those highly trained TSA rent-a-morons at work!

The TSA does not conduct searches outside the USA as far as I'm aware. However, it remains true that 100% of cargo on passenger planes is not searched in the USA, either. So your point is well-taken, but not the TSA's fault in this particular case.

 

[MA-Caver]

Carlos Mencia joked about how a guy had shipped himself via airmail before getting caught at his destination. He also (angrily) pointed out how they do not check UNDER the airplane (cargo hold). If they did they would find more stuff like this.
Something is going to happen and something is going to make things worse for us as we want to live our daily lives but cannot because they just tightened restrictions on what and how we do things on account that something terrible happened, like bombs exploding on airplanes in flight or on the tarmac.

 

[Tez3]

The first link doesn't seem to have got it's facts straight. The bomb on the East Midlands plane was taken off by the local police and sent down to the RAR and ED Establishment where it was examined and found to a viable explosive device. 'Scotland Yard' wasn't called in as such, but the Anti Terrorist branch were as is usual in terrorist cases.

The bomb were made from a substance PETN which is extremely difficult to detect so it's not surprising that it took a long time to find. It was hidden in a printer cartridge within a computer. If it's like the cartridges I use it is very small. It initially read negative for explosives but after the other bomb was found they knew what to look for so managed to find it. It's a next to impossible task to find unless you know which plane and which box so of course they searched several planes. They actually did a good job.

The bombs are extremely sophisticated and difficult to find, we have read too much of the 'amateur' bombers caught with stuff in their shoes etc so assume that all these bombers are of the same type but they aren't. Underestimating the enemy is a dangerous thing to do.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The bombs are extremely sophisticated and difficult to find, we have read too much of the 'amateur' bombers caught with stuff in their shoes etc so assume that all these bombers are of the same type but they aren't. Underestimating the enemy is a dangerous thing to do.

Agreed. However, at least in the USA, the TSA admits that they do not even search 100% of all cargo that goes in passenger planes. You can't find anything if you don't search it. Increasing searches on passengers when don't even look at the packages that third-party shippers put in the holds of the same planes is not security; it's bogus 'feel good' theater.

http://www.securityinfowatch.com/node/1316789?pageNum=5

Says right there - despite being ordered by Congress to screen ALL cargo on passenger planes, repeatedly, the TSA currently (July 2010) has a 'goal' of screening just 50% of all perishable goods for example. That's a 50% chance of a head of lettuce being something else - it doesn't even get checked half the time.

We cannot call that security.

 

[Tez3]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11659700

"The exact way in which these devices were to be detonated is not clear, but British officials believe those who planted the bombs would not have known exactly where the planes would have been when the blew up."


It's clear that the bombers didn't care about who they killed, one the planes carrying a bomb was an Emirates flight presumably carrying Muslims as well as others. The bombs could also have gone off in Dubai.

 

[Flea]

When I shipped my cats via United this summer, I had to take each one out of its carrier to demonstrate that they weren't wearing adorable fluffy little suicide belts. The TSA agent insisted that I do so in the main check-in area rather than take the conversation to a small enclosed office.

So really, I don't know what the problem is. If they felt strongly enough not only to check for the ridiculous but to endanger my cats' lives in the process, it's obvious that they're doing a good thorough job.

[/sarcasm]

 

[MJS]

Typical. Security in a particular area sucks, the badguys take advantage of it, fortunately nothing bad happens, and now, we'll see more strict standards. Why wasn't the strict security there from the beginning? Given the face that sneaking onto a plane with a bomb in your pants, shoes, etc, is nothing new, did someone actually think that maybe shipping a bomb wouldn't happen?

 

[Tez3]

The security was lacking, if it was, at the point of origin of the flights. It's impossible to search every plane and find this stuff without having any idea of where it is. This particular explosive is very hard to detect, neither sniffer dogs nor x rays pick it up.The bombs were actually on two passenger flights not cargo planes btw.
Intelligence came to MI6, if it hadn't no amount of searching would have necessarily found it, they could have got lucky of course but the chances of finding a thing a couple of inches across placed in a computer where it was not out of place would have been not high especially if it could have been in one of hundreds of flights.
We aren't up against bumblers but clever,wily and intelligent people who have done their homework well.

 

[WC_lun]

With the small size of the charges, could they have done very serious damage to a plane?

I have to be patted down everytime I go through an airport due to some hardware in my body. They can get pretty personal. I can't imagine cupping thier hands would make a noticable difference in detecting contraband on a person.

 

[elder999]

With the small size of the charges, could they have done very serious damage to a plane? .

PETN is one of the most energetic high explosives. While it's not clear that it was their intention to detonate it on the planes, it could have done significant damage, dependinmg upon where it was placed.

 

[Tez3]

With the small size of the charges, could they have done very serious damage to a plane?

I have to be patted down everytime I go through an airport due to some hardware in my body. They can get pretty personal. I can't imagine cupping thier hands would make a noticable difference in detecting contraband on a person.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/27/petn-pentaerythritol-trinitrate-explosive

It's used because you need very little.

for the more scientifically minded
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/explosives-nitrate-petn.htm

 

[WC_lun]

Thanks for the answers. You can obviously tell I'm no explosives expert

 

[Tez3]

Thanks for the answers. You can obviously tell I'm no explosives expert

I have no experience of the technical making of them etc, the last link I posted was in a foreign language to me lol!

 

[MJS]

Agreed. However, at least in the USA, the TSA admits that they do not even search 100% of all cargo that goes in passenger planes. You can't find anything if you don't search it. Increasing searches on passengers when don't even look at the packages that third-party shippers put in the holds of the same planes is not security; it's bogus 'feel good' theater.

http://www.securityinfowatch.com/node/1316789?pageNum=5

Says right there - despite being ordered by Congress to screen ALL cargo on passenger planes, repeatedly, the TSA currently (July 2010) has a 'goal' of screening just 50% of all perishable goods for example. That's a 50% chance of a head of lettuce being something else - it doesn't even get checked half the time.

We cannot call that security.

Thanks Bill, you saved me the trouble of saying this! I was thinking the same thing...I mean, if you're going to screen every single passenger, if you're going to screen every single carry on, then why not every package? Difficult as it may be, this, IMO, is exactly what the bad guys are looking at. And as I said, why does it take an incident, to make people wake up and say, "Gee, maybe we better start doing this."

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Thanks Bill, you saved me the trouble of saying this! I was thinking the same thing...I mean, if you're going to screen every single passenger, if you're going to screen every single carry on, then why not every package? Difficult as it may be, this, IMO, is exactly what the bad guys are looking at. And as I said, why does it take an incident, to make people wake up and say, "Gee, maybe we better start doing this."

This is part of why I'm furious over this. I've been carping about this exact issue for years. I seldom got responses from elected officials, other than form letters ensuring me that our nation's security was their highest priority. Nothing got done.

And what makes me even madder was that people would tell me "Well, what we're doing is better than nothing, at least." No, it's not. It's WORSE than nothing, because it gives the illusion of security where there isn't any.

The only reason there have not been more bomb attacks on planes is because AQ hasn't wanted to do any. If they had, this well-known security hole would have been exploited by now.

And frankly, I don't believe that the bombs were meant to go off. I believe they were designed to be found. Asymmetric warfare here; it attacks our infrastructure at a critical time; cargo shipments will now have to be inspected by hand at great cost, and right as we enter the Christmas package season. This is going to hammer our economy and slow down commerce as well as creating more fear. Oh joy oh bliss.

 

[Tez3]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11669636

Measures just announced here.

The Yemen and Aden...we've been here before. My shift partner was out there with the Paras.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6981556.ece