BJJ vs Wing Chun (joke joke!)

[Yoshiyahu]

I am sorry MJS I thought I answer your question?

MJS said "

Is a doctor bad if he goes on to specialize in something? What about a teacher? You have various teachers for each subject. What about a chef?

Well as for a doctor. There are doctors who specialize in animals like a Vet and doctors who specialize in certain field. You have general doctors who are trained in a little bit every thing. But I rather a skilled surgeon cut me open opposed to General Doctor or Nurse who has cross trained lets say in heart surgery.

I perfer a Brain surgeon to operate on my head than a doctor who has studied and practiced a little bit everything. Just my opinion.

An as for teachers. I work in the school system. So I suggest if you want a question about why E=MC square and theory of the Quadratic formula I perfer to go to person well versed in Mathematics. I wouldn't asked a Religion major or Journalist a Phyiscs question. If I had a choice subject from someone in college lets say Geometry. I would rather learn Geometry from someone who specializes in that. I had a Math teacher who specialized in History in junior high...She was an okay math teacher But she taught History way better than math. I work with a guy now who specializes in math. He is a better Math Teacher in my opinion than Reading or English teacher. Although he can teach both. If I was a parent I would have my son/daugther enroll in his math class and enroll English class across the hall. Because the other lady is better english teacher.

Some people are better at certain subjects,Arts, and practices than others. What they are good at they should stick too.


"

I said it before, and I'll say it again. If you want to cross train, fine, do it. If you don't, fine, then don't do it. IMO, we can learn something from every art, and no, you're not tainting yourself, you're improving your skills. I find it interesting how one of my posts in that locked thread went unanswered. It was the one about doctors, teachers, etc. Is a doctor bad if he goes on to specialize in something? What about a teacher? You have various teachers for each subject. What about a chef?

My point....those are people who specialize in something. Nothing wrong with that.

Whats really sad, is how people can run around, so blind to what else is on the table. To each their own I guess.

 

[elder999]

ISome people are better at certain subjects,Arts, and practices than others. What they are good at they should stick too.


"

And yet, some would have it, that while there is no groundfighting, per se, in traditional wing chun, that wing chun has everything one needs for all ranges of combat, including groundfighting. Which, to me, is rather like saying that one should look to judo, wrestling or BJJ for striking expertise-just plain silly.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Well actually WC has some simple Judo techniques and Chin Na techniques. I mostly concentrate on striking. But if I wanted to know more Judo I would retake judo. I personally don't see the purpose of ground fighting unless I am going into the cage. Then learning a Ground game would be something I would definite want to do. But in streets I live by Ground fighting is not done. Unless its friendly. Most of the time people are trying to knock your head off or kick you in the Nutz. If you go to ground...They start pulling hair or biting an if they get off the ground before you hear comes to foot to your head...You get stomped in club going to the ground.


But personally I think its nothing wrong with BJJ per say. Its probably a great art. I did infact like Judo when i took it. But I like Kick boxing better than aikido and judo. I never really seen a use for that stuff except demostrating and playing around. But this is my opinion. I mean dont get me wrong. My WC Sidai was on the wrestling team. So with him i would wrestle. He was great wrestler. Very strong. If I did get him in submissive posistion it would be long before he got out an reversed it on me. But all the fights we had in school never went to ground. Even when we fought multiple attackers.

And yet, some would have it, that while there is no groundfighting, per se, in traditional wing chun, that wing chun has everything one needs for all ranges of combat, including groundfighting. Which, to me, is rather like saying that one should look to judo, wrestling or BJJ for striking expertise-just plain silly.

 

[kaizasosei]

totally!! Eating the same dish all the time is really bad for you. I heard about this student in japan that was trying to budget himself so he ate nothing but one ramen a day and within a year he died...****in A -way to go huh!?

j

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Well Wing Chun is not one food. Its one style of food. So we have many different dishes. Just all Chinese. I mean I could try a little japanese and little greek food from time to time. But I dont like greek and japanese food.

Now Wing Chun is like Lam's Garden Restarurant. Where you have numerous dishes of chinese food.

An JJJ is like Shinobi restaruant where you have sushi and many other dishes. I don't like anything on Shinobi menu so i will stick with Lam's Garden.

But I do try other restaruants. I try a little Tai Chi and from time to time Bagua. Just recently I tried some Xing Yi Quan. In the past I tried Tiger and Crane. They are all pretty good. But mostly I eat Wing Chun and from time to time I try some Tai Chi...So I am getting a varitey of Chinese dishes from different systems(Restaruants).


So I guess I do got some variety in there wouldnt you say?

totally!! Eating the same dish all the time is really bad for you. I heard about this student in japan that was trying to budget himself so he ate nothing but one ramen a day and within a year he died...****in A -way to go huh!?

j

 

[kaizasosei]

No doubt! eat to live..no?
How bout if you're really hungry, would you eat sushi or sashimi?...just make sure it be fresh?, i guess...plenty of good things to eat...just as long as one doesnt get eaten.??

j

 

[Yoshiyahu]

i dont eat raw fish...so more than likely not...if i was really hungry give me some lamb?

I have a realative that his half japanese. I never liked Japanese food. When I had it as a kid. But in High school I ate some authenic chinese food at friend of my Sidai's house. His friend was Chinese and the food they prepared was nothing like what you get at the chinese restaruants. It was alot healtheir. But it was good.



Japanese food taste a little wierd when I had it. Just my opinion though.

No doubt! eat to live..no?
How bout if you're really hungry, would you eat sushi or sashimi?...just make sure it be fresh?, i guess...plenty of good things to eat...just as long as one doesnt get eaten.??

j

 

[Si-Je]

Well Wing Chun is not one food. Its one style of food. So we have many different dishes. Just all Chinese. I mean I could try a little japanese and little greek food from time to time. But I dont like greek and japanese food.

Now Wing Chun is like Lam's Garden Restarurant. Where you have numerous dishes of chinese food.

An JJJ is like Shinobi restaruant where you have sushi and many other dishes. I don't like anything on Shinobi menu so i will stick with Lam's Garden.

But I do try other restaruants. I try a little Tai Chi and from time to time Bagua. Just recently I tried some Xing Yi Quan. In the past I tried Tiger and Crane. They are all pretty good. But mostly I eat Wing Chun and from time to time I try some Tai Chi...So I am getting a varitey of Chinese dishes from different systems(Restaruants).


So I guess I do got some variety in there wouldnt you say?

Oh my God! your funny! ROFL! Fighting styles like food... Specialization in Chinese food...
What if WC had Western influences? A little Spanish food? (nevermind, that's just a thing my other teacher rants on about.)

But, funny nevertheless.
So, would BJJ be a Brazilian Resturant or Japanese, or would it be an all you eat buffet with all different kinds of dishes mixed in? With Sushie, Feijoada, California Rolls, etc.?

Going to other resturants is fun too from time to time, but the old favorites do stick. I could go for some Greek food, Mexican food is a favorite with a dash of French cuisine (but Zapota hasn't opened a resturant in my neighborhood yet), I wonder what the Russians eat, would try that . Japanese food is good if you go to a resturant that makes it for you right there at the table. You can always pick what you want on the hotplate.
Funny, man. You rock.

 

[MJS]

I am sorry MJS I thought I answer your question?

MJS said "


Well as for a doctor. There are doctors who specialize in animals like a Vet and doctors who specialize in certain field. You have general doctors who are trained in a little bit every thing. But I rather a skilled surgeon cut me open opposed to General Doctor or Nurse who has cross trained lets say in heart surgery.

I perfer a Brain surgeon to operate on my head than a doctor who has studied and practiced a little bit everything. Just my opinion.

An as for teachers. I work in the school system. So I suggest if you want a question about why E=MC square and theory of the Quadratic formula I perfer to go to person well versed in Mathematics. I wouldn't asked a Religion major or Journalist a Phyiscs question. If I had a choice subject from someone in college lets say Geometry. I would rather learn Geometry from someone who specializes in that. I had a Math teacher who specialized in History in junior high...She was an okay math teacher But she taught History way better than math. I work with a guy now who specializes in math. He is a better Math Teacher in my opinion than Reading or English teacher. Although he can teach both. If I was a parent I would have my son/daugther enroll in his math class and enroll English class across the hall. Because the other lady is better english teacher.

Some people are better at certain subjects,Arts, and practices than others. What they are good at they should stick too.


"

I think you may be missing my point. You have martial artists, such as yourself and sije, who don't like the idea of crosstraining. You could be compared to the gen. pract. doctor. You have someone like myself who likes to crosstrain and goes to a specialist to improve on a certain area, instead of hoping that my base art will have the answers.

So, if you needed to be cut open, chances are, you'd be going to a specialist. You admit in your above post that you would rather have that. So instead of hoping your gen pract can help you, or instead of hoping that your base art can help you, in both cases, you see a specialist when you need to have surgery and when you need to improve in a certain area.

I have a feeling that this discussion will be about as productive as the last multi page one that is now locked.

 

[Hand Sword]

:erg:

This is ridiculous! Did I see the statement made that from their fights, even with multiple attackers fights NEVER went to the ground?
That's either serious:
:bs:

where it's now arguing for the sake of arguing or

It's a world called perfect, where I WISH Real fights went that way. Either way I question the validity of the argument, experience being given by the poster, and the purpose of taking part in this forum. I think it's just trolling for the sake of trolling. Every reply is met with a new question, or a scenario that tries to top the other in an endless game.

Either way, I think this topic has been killed, burned to ashes, and scattered to the 4 winds and everywhere in between.

:asian:

 

[KamonGuy2]

:erg:

This is ridiculous! Did I see the statement made that from their fights, even with multiple attackers fights NEVER went to the ground?
That's either serious:
:bs:

where it's now arguing for the sake of arguing or

It's a world called perfect, where I WISH Real fights went that way. Either way I question the validity of the argument, experience being given by the poster, and the purpose of taking part in this forum. I think it's just trolling for the sake of trolling. Every reply is met with a new question, or a scenario that tries to top the other in an endless game.

Either way, I think this topic has been killed, burned to ashes, and scattered to the 4 winds and everywhere in between.

:asian:

Have a look at Sijes posts. She insists that she will never be taken to the ground.
I can understand people who keep their feet well. If you youtube Kevin Chan at SENI in 2008 you will see him pretty much keeping his feet against another black belt in BJJ, but after a while even he goes to ground

I keep repeating the points, but I'm starting to think that I'm the only chunner posting who has had reall confrontations/fights. I'm a big guy and can hold my stance well, but I have been pushed up against cars, fallen over a bar stool during a tussle, been dragged to the floor by bouncers

I sound like a bit of a yob, but i'm not. I'm a nice guy that gets into bad situations!

 

[Steve]

Have a look at Sijes posts. She insists that she will never be taken to the ground.
I can understand people who keep their feet well. If you youtube Kevin Chan at SENI in 2008 you will see him pretty much keeping his feet against another black belt in BJJ, but after a while even he goes to ground

I keep repeating the points, but I'm starting to think that I'm the only chunner posting who has had reall confrontations/fights. I'm a big guy and can hold my stance well, but I have been pushed up against cars, fallen over a bar stool during a tussle, been dragged to the floor by bouncers

I sound like a bit of a yob, but i'm not. I'm a nice guy that gets into bad situations!

In fairness to Si-Je, I don't think she ever said she wouldn't get taken to the ground. Rather, that her anti-grappling is sufficient to ensure that she can get back up. And that it's completely different from grappling. I don't necessarily agree with her position, but I don't think it's as extreme as to suggest that she's immune to being taken to the ground.

That said, I also think that this particular argument is pretty well finished. I'll point out that there are two terrific BJJ schools in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. One is a Rickson Gracie affiliate (IIRC) and the other is Coach Mohler's school. My coach trained with Mohler until he moved back to the PNW and I know he's a nice guy. So, if anyone in that area wants to find quality BJJ, it's there. Whether for a gong sau challenge match or just to cross train, although I'd recommend the latter.

I seen you walkin' down in Chinatown
I called you but you could not look around

Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?
Why can't we be friends?

 

[KamonGuy2]

In fairness to Si-Je, I don't think she ever said she wouldn't get taken to the ground. Rather, that her anti-grappling is sufficient to ensure that she can get back up. And that it's completely different from grappling. I don't necessarily agree with her position, but I don't think it's as extreme as to suggest that she's immune to being taken to the ground.

Nope she said SHE WOULDN'T EVER GET TAKEN TO THE GROUND in one of her earlier conversations with me (I'm not talking about the recent BJJ vs wing chun thread)
I had a very long argument with her, sparked because of that particular comment

I would try and find the post, but I really don't have the time or willpower - I'll let someone else hunt around for it

For me, anti grappling is just a poor phrase. There is grappling and clinchwork. Anti-grappling is basically saying you won't get into a grapple, but if you look at the anti grappling stuff - it is grappling! BJJ, throws (presumably from judo), takedowns

 

[dungeonworks]

Nope she said SHE WOULDN'T EVER GET TAKEN TO THE GROUND in one of her earlier conversations with me (I'm not talking about the recent BJJ vs wing chun thread)
I had a very long argument with her, sparked because of that particular comment

I would try and find the post, but I really don't have the time or willpower - I'll let someone else hunt around for it

For me, anti grappling is just a poor phrase. There is grappling and clinchwork. Anti-grappling is basically saying you won't get into a grapple, but if you look at the anti grappling stuff - it is grappling! BJJ, throws (presumably from judo), takedowns

For the record, it was "Wing Chun + Brazillian Jiujitsu=". It was derailed into the context of Wing Chun vs BJJ.

 

[Steve]

No problem, Kamon Guy. Between you and me, though, I'm willing to allow people to back off of an extreme position. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, we overstate our case. I'm guilty of it, too, despite my best efforts.

Regarding anti-grappling, I agree with you completely, but would be open to working out with with an anti-grappler just for fun. I'm not interested in winning or losing, but if someone wants to get together in a friendly way, I'm all for it. I'd like to see what it's about, if anything.

On this note, I read a lot of blogs. One is a grappling tips blog by a credible black belt, Stephan Kesting, out of Vancouver BC. He concludes the blog post with the following statement:

Issac Newton once wrote "If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." I encourage you to accelerate your own progress by standing on the shoulders of giants too. Just keep in mind that some of these useful giants are outside the art of BJJ!

I've been saying this very thing! Original post can be found here.

 

[MJS]

Nope she said SHE WOULDN'T EVER GET TAKEN TO THE GROUND in one of her earlier conversations with me (I'm not talking about the recent BJJ vs wing chun thread)
I had a very long argument with her, sparked because of that particular comment

Must be nice when people can predict what will/will not happen in a fight. *rolls eyes*

I would try and find the post, but I really don't have the time or willpower - I'll let someone else hunt around for it

I don't blame you at all. Its probably not worth rehashing that, as we all know where that'll end up.

For me, anti grappling is just a poor phrase. There is grappling and clinchwork. Anti-grappling is basically saying you won't get into a grapple, but if you look at the anti grappling stuff - it is grappling! BJJ, throws (presumably from judo), takedowns

Exactly!!!! Frankly, I find it odd the way the term is almost hinted that its just a WC thing, because if we stop and think about it, any time anyone attempts to defend against a grappling attack, its an attempt to avoid grappling.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

But the questions is sometimes you try new foods once or twice. But do really keep eating new foods. Are do we always fall back to the foods we are used to an like best?

I mean dont get me wrong I may have tried other styles of food in the past. But I perfer certain foods which I eat most of the time. Same with my training. Once a year I may try some new dish...But Then i return to good ole stuff I like most.

Oh my God! your funny! ROFL! Fighting styles like food... Specialization in Chinese food...
What if WC had Western influences? A little Spanish food? (nevermind, that's just a thing my other teacher rants on about.)

But, funny nevertheless.
So, would BJJ be a Brazilian Resturant or Japanese, or would it be an all you eat buffet with all different kinds of dishes mixed in? With Sushie, Feijoada, California Rolls, etc.?

Going to other resturants is fun too from time to time, but the old favorites do stick. I could go for some Greek food, Mexican food is a favorite with a dash of French cuisine (but Zapota hasn't opened a resturant in my neighborhood yet), I wonder what the Russians eat, would try that . Japanese food is good if you go to a resturant that makes it for you right there at the table. You can always pick what you want on the hotplate.
Funny, man. You rock.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I think you got your idea all wrong. A specialist is someone who specializes in one art. A specialist is compared to purist. An non-specialist is someone who studies a little bit of everything. Specialist only do what they specialise in. While a General doctor may do a variety of different things in different areas. You have people who make all types of swords. An you have those who specialize in making one type Authenic Japanese Sword made for combat. The specialist only makes one type of sword. The Mixed Sword makers makes all kinds of swords. You have someone who specializes in boxing. An you have someone who practices Muay Thai,Boxing, and BJJ.


Remember the movie The five deadly Venoms.

There was sixth student who train in all five styles. But he was no match to fight one of the original Five Venoms because he didn't specialize in one their arts.

I think you may be missing my point. You have martial artists, such as yourself and sije, who don't like the idea of crosstraining. You could be compared to the gen. pract. doctor. You have someone like myself who likes to crosstrain and goes to a specialist to improve on a certain area, instead of hoping that my base art will have the answers.

So, if you needed to be cut open, chances are, you'd be going to a specialist. You admit in your above post that you would rather have that. So instead of hoping your gen pract can help you, or instead of hoping that your base art can help you, in both cases, you see a specialist when you need to have surgery and when you need to improve in a certain area.

I have a feeling that this discussion will be about as productive as the last multi page one that is now locked.

 

[Steve]

But the questions is sometimes you try new foods once or twice. But do really keep eating new foods. Are do we always fall back to the foods we are used to an like best?

I mean dont get me wrong I may have tried other styles of food in the past. But I perfer certain foods which I eat most of the time. Same with my training. Once a year I may try some new dish...But Then i return to good ole stuff I like most.

It depends. I love trying new things and while I have favorites, I try new foods all the time.

Funny story (at least, funny to me). My 13 year old son came home from school one day, just a few weeks ago, and said, "Why didn't you ever make me eat tomato soup!??! I had tomato soup at school today and loved it! We never have tomato soup at home!" He was indignant, until I pointed out that we have tomato soup in the cupboard and I've tried to make it for him many times in the past. When I suggested it, though, it was always, "Yuck. I don't like tomato soup."

My point is that what's being said is often less important than who is saying it.

 

[skinters]

this is not my post below but sums up things like this for me.

Look many many people feel the need to find an identity for themselves in life. They need to look at something they deem to be larger/better than they are & to be part of a collective. They don't like to find out about themselves is a very honest and true way as an individual, so they look to something outside themselves to create an identity for them e.g. a national identity, religion, culture...

Martial arts can also fill this suppose void for many people. It gives them an identity e.g. "I'm a grappler" or "I'm a karate man" "Or I am TKD'er". It becomes personal because a lot of people seem to think that it is part of their identity.

So when a person says such and such MA is useless, many people, who look to MA to give them their identity, take it as a personal slight. It isn't about martial arts, it is about the people involved.