BJJ bluebelt

[LiteBlu]

"Many people keep saying it is the style that determines the winner which is false. The style is apart of the man, the man is the one that determines who wins the fight.

The Sakuraba vs. Royler Gracie fight, Sakuraba killed Royler with kicks and Royler lost but that does not mean Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu is bad or not good, it all depends on the man not which style is better than that style."


That's true today, with the high degree of athleticism, skill and cross training that both fighters and players have available.

BUT, back in 1993 it was the style that won the fight. Not the man. As my previous post stated, no one cross trained. Everyone was a 1 dimensional fighter. How do you think, that back in 1993, an anorexic Brazilian guy could man handle the crap out of a 220 pound shoot fighter from Pancrase. (Royce Gracie vs Kenneth Wayne Shamrock 1).

And regarding your example above (Sakuraba vs Royler), you do know that in an MMA context, Sakuraba is the better grappler of the two and the better cross trained fighter of the two.

 

[Littledragon]

"Many people keep saying it is the style that determines the winner which is false. The style is apart of the man, the man is the one that determines who wins the fight.

The Sakuraba vs. Royler Gracie fight, Sakuraba killed Royler with kicks and Royler lost but that does not mean Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu is bad or not good, it all depends on the man not which style is better than that style."


That's true today, with the high degree of athleticism, skill and cross training that both fighters and players have available.

BUT, back in 1993 it was the style that won the fight. Not the man. As my previous post stated, no one cross trained. Everyone was a 1 dimensional fighter. How do you think, that back in 1993, an anorexic Brazilian guy could man handle the crap out of a 220 pound shoot fighter from Pancrase. (Royce Gracie vs Kenneth Wayne Shamrock 1).

And regarding your example above (Sakuraba vs Royler), you do know that in an MMA context, Sakuraba is the better grappler of the two and the better cross trained fighter of the two.

Sakuraba vs. Royler I know that Royler was the better grappler without a doubt its just that Royler never fought some one like the way Sakuraba fought, he never in his life got a real kick in the face and that was a culture shock to him. I think because Sakuraba immobolized Royler so much with his kicks it took all his energy away from him, thats why he lost the fight but submission the referee should not have stopped the fight because Royler was in no pain.

 

[LiteBlu]

Royler was the better "sports" grappler (multiple time Mundial and Abu Dhabi champion). But what you have to remember is that BJJ (MMA and cross training) was created and refined for the vale tudo (NHB, Anything Goes) and not for sports grappling. Many of us (including me) are only sports grapplers because of fitness, recreation and, yes, sports grappling is also good for self defence. But what BJJ is originally for is challenge matches and vale tudo. Royler's big mistake was that he thought he could come in and beat Sakuraba with sports grappling and no cross training and got severely punished for it. And, LOL, if he wasn't in pain during that submission, then he must've been on tranquilizers because his elbow was bending 90 degrees the wrong way when Saku applied that figure four kimura.

 

[Littledragon]

Royler was the better "sports" grappler (multiple time Mundial and Abu Dhabi champion). But what you have to remember is that BJJ (MMA and cross training) was created and refined for the vale tudo (NHB, Anything Goes) and not for sports grappling. Many of us (including me) are only sports grapplers because of fitness, recreation and, yes, sports grappling is also good for self defence. But what BJJ is originally for is challenge matches and vale tudo. Royler's big mistake was that he thought he could come in and beat Sakuraba with sports grappling and no cross training and got severely punished for it. And, LOL, if he wasn't in pain during that submission, then he must've been on tranquilizers because his elbow was bending 90 degrees the wrong way when Saku applied that figure four kimura.

Ye thats true, like I said I think Royler lost because he never fought some one like Sakuraba. Sakuraba immobilized Royler with some extremley hard kicks and that wore him out. I think Royler should have used some strikes but it shows you no one art is superior and it shows you how effective a multi dimentional fighter and striking really is.

 

[gusano]

the referee should not have stopped the fight because Royler was in no pain.

It is the referee's JOB to stop the fight if the fighter is no longer able to intelligently defend himself. Refusing to tap is NOT intelligently defending yourself! Sakuraba broke Renzo's arm with the same kimura and that is exactly what would have happened to Royler if the ref had not stopped the fight. Royler is an awesome submission grappler and has no business fighting vale tudo.