Benefits without intent?

[Xue Sheng]

It's one of the Chen styles. Ming if I remember correctly. But I could be pulling that out of nowhere.

Jeff

OK, Im confused

Chen I know

Cheng Manching I know.

Ming I do not.

But that's ok, just keep us posted.

And before I go CHEN STYLE IS SO COOL... OK I feel better now.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes Yes, we agree completely here! I can't stand that at all. However, it is a great warning system to know if I'm dealing with a nutcase or a serious taiji student If they start making statements like that I can generally just write them off and not waste any more of my precious time or energy on them

7sm

Yup, that's what I did. I looked at him and much to his surprise I turned from his magnificence and walked away

At that time I was only studying Traditional Yang with my ex-Sifu and practicing Chen on my own, which I had learned from my previous Sifu. Where he had studied Sun, Yang, Wu, and Wu/Hao, Chen…..FORMS… But in his extensive years of study….TWO….. he had become a master of Tai Chi that did not do martial arts…

 

[Xue Sheng]

Rant! Rant! Rant! Rant!

The thing is XueSheng, when you rant, we all learn.

Come on, you know you want to!

Rant! Rant! Rant! Rant!

artyon:

Oh, yes!!! Rant some more! Xue Sheng, come on!!! Surely there's more you can rant about! You have a way of making very good points when you rant instead of some mindless dribble.

- Ceicei

And blow all that money I have been spending at Ranter’s anonymous...

You can tell one is building can't you

 

[Carol]

To heck with Ranter's Anonymous! Venting is GOOD for you. Gets rid of bad energy. Plus your rants are the GOOD kind of rants not the bad kind of rants.

Please? For someone that lives off Route 114 near your old stomping grounds? Please?

 

[Xue Sheng]

To heck with Ranter's Anonymous! Venting is GOOD for you. Gets rid of bad energy. Plus your rants are the GOOD kind of rants not the bad kind of rants.

Please? For someone that lives off Route 114 near your old stomping grounds? Please?

Ahh yes the wharf, the willows, the common and of course the House of 7 gables....

Nope never been there I lived on Herrick road off Lowell street.

 

[Fu_Bag]

You know, if the main problem is that people aren't doing the movments with MartialIntent, he's a member of this site. Just convince him to lead a bunch of classes. On a more serious note, are you guys saying that Tai Chi can help to improve the Boot Scootin' Boogie? This could really revolutionize the whole wedding scene...... Fantastic!!!!!

 

[pstarr]

For what it's worth, I don't believe that Taijiquan can be practiced correctly without learning its martial content.

But I do agree that it has wonderful therapeutic properties and can be very beneficial to persons suffering from a variety of ailments. Of course, it's best used as a health maintenance technique- strengthening the body and the immune system. It's always easier to prevent than to cure.

 

[East Winds]

O.K. So I was stirring the pot a bit and probably engaging in a bit of semantics. Yes, I also teach "Tai Chi" for health. I also run courses for physiotherapists to assist with fall prevention in the elderly. But my main point still, I think, is relevant. Would you be doing Judo, Tai Kwon Do or Karate if you never worked with a partner? Would you still be doing Wing Chun if you never worked with a dummy? So why should Taijiquan be so different. If we were totally honest, we would say that Tai Chi was a convenient hook to hang our exercise programmes on. Should we not be totally honest and say that we teach an exercise programme "based" on Tai Chi? Should we not retain the name Tai Chi for the true form that is the martial art? I once had a person who came to class and said they had been doing Tai Chi for years. When I asked which style, the reply was "Oh I'm not sure, but we stood in a circle holding hands with a candle in the middle of the floor"!!! Xue Sheng would have been proud of my rant!!!!! To get the real health benefits of taiji, bodies need to be properly aligned as in the martial application. Only by learning how to generate and apply the energies of taijiquan can true health benefits be found. And my analogy of line dancing still applies. Any moving exercise is good for you whether gentle or vigorous. If I did line dancing slowly would it not have the same effect as "Tai Chi"?

O.K. that's me off my soap box.

Xue Sheng, you've got a lot to answer for!!!!!!!!

Very best wishes

Alistair Sutherland

 

[Jade Tigress]

Rant! Rant! Rant! Rant!

The thing is XueSheng, when you rant, we all learn.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Xue Sheng]

But my main point still, I think, is relevant. Would you be doing Judo, Tai Kwon Do or Karate if you never worked with a partner? Would you still be doing Wing Chun if you never worked with a dummy? So why should Taijiquan be so different. If we were totally honest, we would say that Tai Chi was a convenient hook to hang our exercise programmes on. Should we not be totally honest and say that we teach an exercise programme "based" on Tai Chi? Should we not retain the name Tai Chi for the true form that is the martial art? I once had a person who came to class and said they had been doing Tai Chi for years. When I asked which style, the reply was "Oh I'm not sure, but we stood in a circle holding hands with a candle in the middle of the floor"!!! Xue Sheng would have been proud of my rant!!!!! To get the real health benefits of taiji, bodies need to be properly aligned as in the martial application. Only by learning how to generate and apply the energies of taijiquan can true health benefits be found. And my analogy of line dancing still applies. Any moving exercise is good for you whether gentle or vigorous. If I did line dancing slowly would it not have the same effect as "Tai Chi"?

Xue Sheng, you've got a lot to answer for!!!!!!!!

OK, I can't let East Wind stand out here all by himself ranting. And I have to say I agree with much of what he is saying.

Here’s what you have all been waiting for, the people at Ranters anonymous will probably kick me out of the class, and I hope you are all happy. And I might be going a bit off what Jeffj’s post “Benefits without intent?” is about, but here goes.

- BEGIN RANT –

I think we are pretty much all in agreement here that Tai Chi for health has its benefits. I also think we are all pretty much in agreement that Tai Chi with Martial Arts intact has more. I generally, in all truthfulness consider Tai Chi for health an offshoot of Tai Chi for martial arts with fewer benefits. And as long as the person teaching that type of Tai Chi makes ABSOLULTLY sure that he or she is teaching at least the postures and form currently with proper alignment and BREATHING, throw in the internal too and I have to admit I really have no complaints about this, it is not for me, but it ain’t bad for what it is claiming to be. If they are not doing at least breathing and posture you may be giving someone more strength and flexibility but they are doing nothing else, and a dance class can do the same for you. If this teacher calls his or her class the Tai Chi dance class once again I have no problem since they at least understand what is going on and are honest about it. This by the way is what my long time sifu turned into to gain more students. And to me that is MUCH worse than someone who just doesn’t know any better. And to be honest he doesn’t much push forms correctness any more either. I do believe his teacher would be very very angry at what he has done. But enough about my issues, back to the issue at hand.

Now what you generally run into in this big world when you are looking for a Tai chi class is the guy like I previously referred to, that master of 5 family styles in only 2 years that did not do martial arts. This is the guy that is KILLING tai chi faster than those of use with real training can do anything about it. Or the person East wind ran into that stood around in a circle holding hands, I am surprised they weren’t singing Kumbaya to be honest and calling it singing and dancing Tai Chi of Yang Chen Astaire.

I once had a conversation with a guy, who by that time was doing real Tai Chi with the Yang family. We were talking about Chen style vs. Yang style. I said my personal preference was Chen he told me all other Tai Chi style suck by comparison to Yang and he knew this because he had studied another Tai Chi before and they never moved their arms and the steps were to short. I asked him what style, he couldn’t remember and then I did a bit of Chen, which I could remember. I said THAT’S Chen style and ALL REAL Tai chi styles move your arms. He was amazed, and I once again walked away.

The problem is lack of understanding, lack of desire to understand, out right prejudice, arrogance, politics and/or lack of education in the art they are teaching in many people out there teaching what they call Tai Chi.

And Sadly Yang style is the biggest victim of this. Chen may or may not follow, I am not sure, the postures are lower and many Chen classes and practitioners still practice the MA side. But not all do, my pal the 2 year 5 family grand master did Chen…. Badly.

He also did Tai Chi Sanshou and I did some with him before his “I don’t do” statement. I saw so many places were he was limp and vulnerable but I did not take advantage of that. But after we were done he did tell me “Don’t worry you’ll get it eventually”.

This guy teaches Tai chi and I absolutely guarantee you that there is no health benefit from training with him. The postures are wrong, the breathing is wrong and worst of all, his attitude is wrong.

Tai chi with the martial arts intact is by far the best for health benefits, but I have no problem with a Tai Chi class that focuses on health as long as they admit to it. I had a student once that was 78 years old. He just wanted to be able to walk without worrying about falling. Tai chi for health was perfect for him. Tai chi with martial arts would have hospitalized him, which is what he was trying to avoid. So both of these are fine with me but it is the 2 year 5 family grand masters that are the ones to watch out for.

- END RANT -

 

[East Winds]

Nice to have the old Xue Sheng back!!!!!

Best wishes

Alistair Sutherland

 

[Shrewsbury]

Nice post Xue Sheng.

I have not found a forum that has had the CMA's represented well, or should I say to my liking. I often find arrogance and ignorence hand in hand and have just moved on rather than getting caught up in the junk.

I feel the martial arts our a huge part of who I am, and since i was introduced as a child i have beem able to grow up with them, now at 37 I have a succesful career, excellent family, and still enjoy the arts like i did as a child. I guess what I am saying is perhaps I have found a new CMA forum home.

I agree that tai chi taught as strictly a health art is fine and is one part of what tai chi is about. physical and mental health, self healing, self defense, spiritualism, self descipline, and more all are parts of tai chi, and really all the internal arts and in my opinion external arts.

I share with a church group once a week the physical and mental health aspect of yang tai chi and various qi and nei gong, so I am certainly not saying tai chi isn't an art when taught for health, nor does it lack health benefits. what i am trying to say if you had two people equal in all things, that's the catch they would have to be equall in everything, but one of these two only studied postures, forms, and basics, of course with all the correct mechanics and theory, the other person did the same but also practiced hands on and free fighting methods with various partners, the latter would reap better health benefits and also understand the art more completely, again this is considering all else is equal.

one of the most important aspects of tai chi, in my humble opinion, is blending, and the only good way, or should i say the best way in my opinion, to understand blending is by various partner practice and of course various speeds of practice, this builds an internal rythmn that is otherwise hard to find. in my humble opinion this is one of the important methods of the internal arts that is being lost.

 

[7starmantis]

Great post, I agree 100%. Also, its good to see you are enjoying your time here at MT. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

7sm