Benefits of having a Black Belt club

[terryl965]

As some of you know my wife and my BB wants to get more in line with other succesful TKD schools in the area, which is fine with me. One of the things they want to do is start a Black Belt club, since I do not do one looking for advice and how to put it into place within the school? Al;l help is appreciated both pro and con.

 

[igillman]

We have a black belt club by invitation only. You get invited by the "grand master" to join, it does not cost any more money and we get one extra class per week. The extra class is devoted to harder training, harder sparring and self defence classes. One thing he tried which has not worked is the addition of Kumdo training to the black belt class, most people skip those nights.

In our regular sparring classes we go at 25% to 50% power but during the black belt club sparring we do 100% power. We also do more intensive drills and workouts.

All of our black belts are members. Then we have teenagers who are getting close to black belt or teenagers further down the line who show some sort of talent for TKD. The adults tend to be those who they see as able to play with the big boys. I was asked when I was a white belt simply because of my kicking power. I liked the black belt classes, it was a time to go all-out on the bags or someone else during sparring instead of holding it back.

I think that "black belt clubs" mean different things to different people. What do you want people to get out of a black belt club that they do not get out of a regular class? should be your first question. Then you have to ask if it should be an extra fee or not. You might want to make the black belt club the class that you want to teach (you know, being picky on stances etc...

Try not to make it everything for everyone, that is what the regular classes are for. Make it specialised somehow, it could be where you teach real self defence TKD, real fighting situations and lots of hand techniques or it could be where you teach them how to be an instructor.

There are no hard and fast rules on black belt clubs, you can make them what you want them to be.

 

[Twin Fist]

Terry.
Here is my thoughts on BB club

make it an added value, and the students cant complain. Make it something you KNOW you can do on your part, and you cant complain.

for example:

200 per year membership

one extra class per week and 2 free privates per month
10% discount on testing and gear

work your numbers through that formula, and you will fins it is can be a great source of added income, and not be a burden on you.

 

[exile]

Terry—both igillman and TF sound like they're in the right territory, so far as a BB club is concerned.

The idea should be, this is something you get to do... if you're good enough—that is, if you have the technical potential and the will to do it. BB clubs get a bad name from the McDojangs, no question... and they deserve that name. But there's no reason why a BB club can't be a strong incentive for people to 'rise to the occasion' and extend themselves. The benefit to them is obvious, but it's also very important to the health of any school to have a solid core—or corps?—of people who are at the far edge of training, to serve as possible inspirations and guides to the others (that's what I had in mind in suggesting that maybe the people in the advanced group could do demos to get the regular members fired up and ambitious). The trick is... don't make it an additional cost. Make it an honor. People will be falling all over themselves to get in (or at least, people will be motivated to work that much harder in the regular class).

The boost in morale would be tremendous, I believe. The moment you create an elite group, everyone want to be in it. It'll provide a jolt of serious energy, if you work it right, I'm convinced of it.

 

[Laurentkd]

Just to throw something out here....

we tried to do a black belt club (BBC) like this, where you had to "earn" your way in. We found that people worked very hard the first few months so they could earn their way into the BBC, but after time they were no more likely to train seriously or even continue training as the non-BBC students. And there were lots of people who tried their best, but were never going to be the "creme" so what do you do with those people? By the end (after trying it for about a year) we felt we really weren't doing anyone any good.

Now we have a BBC, but really it is just a length of your agreement. We have all argued contracts before and I think you just have to decide for yourself if they work for your school, but we have found they work for us. Entry Level Program (ELP) is somone who wants to sign on for a year or less. They pay a certain rate for classes and that is that. If you want BBC you sign a three year contract and pay a little less, and get some discounts (I want to say 10 or 15%) on merchandise and events. So basically if you commit to the school (and really to yourself) you get some extra benifits, but really there is no real difference in the training or how you are treated or anything. And at no time is a black belt guaranteed within those three years, but usually by then you are within 6 months or so of testing for a black belt, so people sort of decide then if they are going to continue after black belt, or finish their training with the completion of that black belt goal.

Since we have started doing things this way we have actually had a huge growth in our adult program. I don't think one really effected the other, but it was interesting how once we stopped trying to have an "elite" group one just appeared. Our adult class is a great workout with a great group of people who support each other. They are really the heart of our school which is awesome. I think it was just something that took time to build.

 

[terryl965]

Thanks I believe you have given me alot to think about

 

[dancingalone]

Terry, I read your other thread about how you might be making changes as an instructor. It seems you're really conflicted between the desire to make a bit more money and the wish to keep a high standard within your school. I empathize. I see many of my friends struggling with the same concerns.

I'll give you the same advice I gave them. I don't want to start a war with this, since I'm well aware that many, perhaps even most, of you will disagree with me. But here's my two cents, take it or leave it:

To me, "Black Belt Club" is just a nice phrase for "I signed up for a 3 year contract". I understand you can structure these things to offer some nice benefits, but in the end it's still just a money maker idea. I find them repugnant, since I would like to think that every student gets the same attention and opportunities from the teacher as they do in my school.

I believe it's very difficult to run a commercial school while still remaining true to the art. Remember that martial arts was never meant to be a product for the masses to obtain self-esteem and perhaps a bit of a workout from. It was essentially vocational training for warriors with no belts, no dodgeball, no cheesy catch phrases of the day like 'Courtesy'.

Warrior training requires a certain amount of acceptance of pain and blood and full recognition that you are learning how to maim or kill another person. It requires athleticism and commitment on the order of joining the Marines. It's no coincidence that commercial schools don't teach you warrior skills or even 'self-defense'. They cannot because that's not what the general public actually wants.

So it boils down to this for me. If you want to make money, then let's make money. Give the people what they want and more. That includes 3 year contracts, black belt clubs, recommended and decided ranks, after school pickups, karate parties, and Kungfu Panda tie ins. Lots of people have done very well financially with this approach.

Don't mix the art and money. You'll be happier that way.

 

[terryl965]

Dancingalone I can appreciate what you have said and yes this is a delimma, over the last year we have conducted exit interviews with students and parent and the feedback says it is because the other school offer alot of flashy stuff we do not and they award stars and have all these different types of programs. To stay in our building rent must be meet and biils need to be paid at one time no problem the money came out of my pocket but since I lost alot from a certain accountant I am unable to do so each month. For the doors to stay open my wife and fellow BB are bringing this up so we can compete and keep the doors open. I know it is a gamble but until I hit the lottery it is one that must be done or I will loose what I have. So even though there is conflict withen me, reality is also a considering concept.

 

[dancingalone]

I understand, Terry, and believe me I'm not judging you. I'm just saying if you need to make some money out of this, then go full bore. Advertise, take some 'child engagement' classes, add lots of bling-bling so the blind masses will think they're getting something for their money. In for a penny, in for a pound.

 

[hkfuie]

Can you convey to students that what you are teaching has less flash, but more substance? In a situation like this, maybe you can embrace and play up your difference. Make up a slogan, something about no flash, just substance? Find a good analogy and communicate that to your students, not by trash talking, of course, but by just speaking of current trends in martial arts and while you understand people's desire for flash, if they only knew that that flash is fool's gold, they would not want it. Subtly communicate to the students that you believe they are making a good choice by choosing substance. I think they are. You think they are (I believe). I so relate to your struggle on this one. Good luck in finding a solution you can feel good about.

 

[terryl965]

I understand, Terry, and believe me I'm not judging you. I'm just saying if you need to make some money out of this, then go full bore. Advertise, take some 'child engagement' classes, add lots of bling-bling so the blind masses will think they're getting something for their money. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Well since I teach first grade I am sure I can handle the childern, but since my wife and fellow BB will be doing most ofthis I will pass on the info.

 

[hkfuie]

I agree with you, Dancingalone. In for a penny, in for a pound. If you are going to do something, do it with full commitment and no apologies.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

Why does you wife and BB want this program? The only reason I can think of having programs like that is to get more money.
Would having a program like that bring you in more students, which is a legitimate reason, or is it just about raking in more cash?

AoG

 

[terryl965]

Why does you wife and BB want this program? The only reason I can think of having programs like that is to get more money.
Would having a program like that bring you in more students, which is a legitimate reason, or is it just about raking in more cash?

AoG

No AOG we have lost alot of student because of school offering these programs andthe parents want little johnny to be in a special club, when 4 out of five school have them this is what they expect around us. Competition is fearce and they could care less about results.

 

[bluekey88]

Given those circumstances...the qustion is not should you fo this, but HOW can you do this and still maintain your "treatment integrity" as it were?

I think it is possible to have a school offering all th ebells and whistles that still teaches sound MA and creates strong martial artists. It's a fine line to tread, but I think a man of you rintegrity can do it.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Tez3]

Given those circumstances...the qustion is not should you fo this, but HOW can you do this and still maintain your "treatment integrity" as it were?

I think it is possible to have a school offering all th ebells and whistles that still teaches sound MA and creates strong martial artists. It's a fine line to tread, but I think a man of you rintegrity can do it.

Peace,
Erik

Absolutely agree with Bluekey here. I know of several people who make their living with martial arts, Iain Abernethy, Karl Tanswell, John Kavanagh amonst others, all are well respected and offer great value for money teaching and products.
There seems to be a thing in martial arts whereby if you earn money from the teaching of it you somehow are a lesser person which is bollocks tbh! Even if you are just trying to earn enough to pay the rent and amenities of the Dojo it seems you should run at a loss. This is just nonsense, when my daughter was eventing we paid £50 ($100) an hour for coaching from the British team coach and it was worth every penny for what she learned. Good martial arts instructors shouldn't be afraid of putting a value on their teaching, it doesn't mean ripping people off, it means giving them value for money. Besides people tend to value things less if you don't charge very much.
Terryl I'm positive you can run your school more 'commercially' and be able to pay the necessary bills to stay open AND keep your integrity. go for it! and if there's anything I can do to help, please shout!

 

[StuartA]

The way I look at it, when it comes to students theres 3 types. Think of a circle.. you have:
- the inner circle - these are the real hardcore types, they love the hard classes, train at home, attend all the seminars and comps they can, read martial art books etc etc. Few and far between, a small group
- the middle circle - these are the bulk of most schools. They attend reasonabily regular, train hard once there, attend the odd comp, may come to a seminar, unlikely to have even considered buying a book on martial arts and once they walk out the dojang door they forget all about martial arts
- the outer circle - these are the fodder of the McDangs, kids who are there cos there parents want them to be the next Jackie Chan without the hard work, teenagers who have watched to many movies, train on & on, never attend anythingthat isnt given free or handed on a plate (its too far away etc.)

Any programs you have, should consider these three groups. Within your programs, to be a commercial success try and cater a class or two for each group! Personally I hate the whole notion of BB clubs and understand most McDojangs use them for extra cash.. but then again, McDojangs have low integrity anyway and cater mostly to the outer circle and some middle circle students. That said, you can capitalize on the whole thing, as long as your integrity tells you its for the greater good... as it allows you to run the other classes for the middle and inner circle students! Who knows, occassionally students move between the groups (both directions).

So.. perhaps a BB club, with lots of belts, badges and funky doboks for those that need their ego stroking. (Outer circle). Hell, if people are so shallow to want that and it ensures you schools survival, give it to them as if you dont, someone esle will by the sounds of it.

Do a "Hard Core Class" for those that deserve this sort of training (maybe even use a funky name.. "Elite Class or whatever sounds cool) - but it still furfills the same thing - a class for the inner circle students where you cant teach martial arts as its meant to be taught and get the real deal.

Finally some extra specialized classes for the middle circle - "Sparring Class" "Technical Class" - whatever.. and of course the regular classes for all!

Just some thoughts!

Stuart

 

[Tryak]

Black belt club here does involve a contract of 3 years. The overall tuition cost is reduced plus you get 10% off gear and seminars. Also black belt club are permitted to wear an arm patch or a blue dobok instead of the white if they wish. They have a 1 night a week BBC only train that focuses on more contact sparring, etc.

What works here is that BBC are people who have committed to get their black belts. They are invited and must show good attendance and dedication to improvement. They do not however need to be perfect at what they do so long as they improve. From BBC a core of people are selected for "Leadership" team by technique and also by good attitudes. They receive extra training on how to teach because they are training to be instructors (when they become black belts). Only those with impeccable technique are usually invited and no one who is not humble is allowed in leadership.

Why it works? It lets you invite more people to BBC that will never be amazing so they do not get discourage but gives those in BBC something to still work towards and lets the super hard core students get some enrichment.

Why it doesn't work? I'm moving in 2 years so there is no way I am signing a 3 year contract although I fully am determined to get my black belt.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

No AOG we have lost alot of student because of school offering these programs andthe parents want little johnny to be in a special club, when 4 out of five school have them this is what they expect around us. Competition is fearce and they could care less about results.

BTW Terry,
I hope my post didn't come off as rude. I re-read it and saw that it could have.
You and your wife are right. To be competitive, you have to adopt programs that other schools are using.
I don't like the idea of "black belt clubs" but realize we often have to have the bells and whistles to bring students in.

AoG

 

[Laurentkd]

Given those circumstances...the qustion is not should you fo this, but HOW can you do this and still maintain your "treatment integrity" as it were?

I think it is possible to have a school offering all th ebells and whistles that still teaches sound MA and creates strong martial artists. It's a fine line to tread, but I think a man of you rintegrity can do it.

Peace,
Erik

I think you can. We have the kiddie classes (I myself teach the 4-7 year olds) but once 7:00 hits anyone under 15 (and after 8:00 anyone under 18) is kicked out and the REAL training begins.

I know that we all like to think about old school martial arts, and we all know that is the way WE all want to train. But in my opinion, the benifits of martial arts are too great to only allow the best of the best to receive them. And, while we would all like to have schools full of the students that dancingalone describes, the truth of the matter is I have never seen an actual school that has them (sure, I have seen garages and parks that have them, but that is it).
SO... if you can't really have a hard core school, AND if you think martial arts training give great positive results in life, why not let yourself have the "commerical school" classes during the early evening to pay the bills, which will allow you to have that great kick-*** group of students in the evening who actually get to train in a good training environment with heat, mats (if desired) and training equimpment.

I was having a similar conversation with a swim coach the other day. And he said well of course! In swimming I think they call it the "penny lanes". The little tykes that aren't good swimmers and maybe even don't want to be are the "penny lanes". They pay the bills so you can afford to train the swimmers you WANT to train.

I will admit, that it took me awhile to get my head around this concept (especially when I was 18 and only concerned about training until I puked!). But, at least at my school, we have found a way that makes people happy (like stuart's three circle theory), so we can pay the bills, which has allowed us to have a great adult program so I can puke my guts out any time I want. It's a win win!