Bashing ?

[An Eternal Student]

I think its because people really want to believe that what they have is in some way special.People like thinking "This is mine and its the greatest". It seems to be apride in ownership thing, and a lot of people become very possesive of their styles.It's THEIR style, and THEIR martial art.So therfore they want it to be better than other peoples.So they praise their own and criticise others, not wanting to admit that their style is just as open to criticism.Every style has is strenghts and weaknesses, but often people become tempted to only notice their strengths and everyone elses weaknesses.

:ultracool Why cant more people be humble like me?Im quite proud of my humilty really.Hehe, only kidding.

 

[Fbettincourt]

I was always under the impression that character development was part of the martial arts. Someone would not be taught the higher levels of the art if they did not demonstrate proper character.

Peace,
FB

 

[RRouuselot]

1)[font=&quot] [/font]I think its because people really want to believe that what they have is in some way special.People like thinking "This is mine and its the greatest". It seems to be apride in ownership thing, and a lot of people become very possesive of their styles.It's THEIR style, and THEIR martial art. So therfore they want it to be better than other peoples.

2)[font=&quot] [/font]So they praise their own and criticise others, not wanting to admit that their style is just as open to criticism.

3)[font=&quot] [/font]Every style has is strenghts and weaknesses, but often people become tempted to only notice their strengths and everyone elses weaknesses.

:ultracoolWhy cant more people be humble like me?Im quite proud of my humilty really.Hehe, only kidding.

1)[font=&quot] [/font]I don’t think the style I train in is better or worse than any other style.

2)[font=&quot] [/font]I think peoples approach to training is very open to criticism….styles aren’t.

3)[font=&quot] [/font]Actually no they don’t….at least not in the big picture. Making a blanket statement like that is like saying a car has a defect because the driver ran a red light. It’s not the cars fault it’s the person executing the driving. You can me and Mikka Hakkinen the exact same race car and he will kick my ***. Styles, like cars, are only as good as the driver behind the wheel or the person teaching you how to drive.

 

[An Eternal Student]

1)[font=&quot] [/font]I don’t think the style I train in is better or worse than any other style.

2)[font=&quot] [/font]I think peoples approach to training is very open to criticism….styles aren’t.

3)[font=&quot] [/font]Actually no they don’t….at least not in the big picture. Making a blanket statement like that is like saying a car has a defect because the driver ran a red light. It’s not the cars fault it’s the person executing the driving. You can me and Mikka Hakkinen the exact same race car and he will kick my ***. Styles, like cars, are only as good as the driver behind the wheel or the person teaching you how to drive.

1.You're style isnt better or worse and niethier is mine.My comments were aimed at those people who feel the need th boast about the superiority of their style.Which is a failry common occurence.

2.A style has both weaknesses and strengths.There are some situations it is suited to dealing with, and some it is not.In that regard, it can be criticsed for its inability to deal with certain situations.There are people who eagerly point out theses flaws in a style, while refusing to acknowledge that there may be flaws in their own.I was merely pointing out that this attitude exists.

3. Both the style and the person who practices it are important.It is the correct combination of the two that creates a formidable warrior, not simply one on its own.

 

[RRouuselot]

1.You're style isnt better or worse and niethier is mine.My comments were aimed at those people who feel the need th boast about the superiority of their style.Which is a failry common occurence.

2.A style has both weaknesses and strengths.There are some situations it is suited to dealing with, and some it is not.In that regard, it can be criticsed for its inability to deal with certain situations.There are people who eagerly point out theses flaws in a style, while refusing to acknowledge that there may be flaws in their own.I was merely pointing out that this attitude exists.

3. Both the style and the person who practices it are important.It is the correct combination of the two that creates a formidable warrior, not simply one on its own.

1)True.

2)I still disagree and here is why. People used to say that Karate had no grappling art it was all just kick and punch……however, certain knowledgeable teachers have shown those naïve people to be wrong about their perception of an art they thought they knew well…some of them quite high ranking teachers in karate too. It’s the way you use the art and how much you understand it and how deeply you take that understanding.

3)I sort of agree with this. The practitioner has a great deal to do with the execution of the art. I used to think Tai Chi was a wussy art until I went to Taiwan/China and a really good teacher showed me stuff I never thought existed in Taichi. This just goes to show that people are never done learning their own art and showed always strive to look for deeper meaning in what they practice.

 

[loki09789]

I was always under the impression that character development was part of the martial arts. Someone would not be taught the higher levels of the art if they did not demonstrate proper character.

Peace,
FB

That is what people say, hang on walls, use as justification to see 'insult' in comments about them from other people.....but rarely is it shown or demonstrated in MA to the ideal that is discussed.

How many times do our own instructors, we ourselves, or at least we laugh along with someone else's comments about someone else, someone else's art.... because we think it is okay because the students/kids are out of the room so to speak....integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking. Personally, 'Character development' is a personal journey that you can use MA training to help develop, but people will 'rise and die' on a daily basis with issues of character.

THe only real 'character' that I can find in martial arts is when people are willing to 'measure' others and themselves by how people deal with those mistakes that are going to be made.

Do we repeat them over and over with no change in frequency or intensity? Then there is no 'development' happening.

Do we verbally apologize, go through gestures of 'I'm Sorry' but make no real effort to look inside and change? Then there is no 'development.'

Other than conduct codes, daily martial arts classes don't really do any more for character development than just showing up to work on time with all your toys and acting civilly with your fellows.

 

[An Eternal Student]

2)I still disagree and here is why. People used to say that Karate had no grappling art it was all just kick and punch……however, certain knowledgeable teachers have shown those naïve people to be wrong about their perception of an art they thought they knew well…some of them quite high ranking teachers in karate too. It’s the way you use the art and how much you understand it and how deeply you take that understanding.

However the movements of a style are the physical enactment of its principles and its philosophy.And naturally enough a prinicple is not applicable to every situation.Therefore there will always be instances where it would be better to enact a different principle, just as there will be instances where the principle is the right one to use.I hope Im not talking crap here, it made sense inside my head.

 

[RRouuselot]

That is what people say, hang on walls, use as justification to see 'insult' in comments about them from other people.....but rarely is it shown or demonstrated in MA to the ideal that is discussed.

How many times do our own instructors, we ourselves, or at least we laugh along with someone else's comments about someone else, someone else's art.... because we think it is okay because the students/kids are out of the room so to speak....integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking. Personally, 'Character development' is a personal journey that you can use MA training to help develop, but people will 'rise and die' on a daily basis with issues of character.

THe only real 'character' that I can find in martial arts is when people are willing to 'measure' others and themselves by how people deal with those mistakes that are going to be made.

Do we repeat them over and over with no change in frequency or intensity? Then there is no 'development' happening.

Do we verbally apologize, go through gestures of 'I'm Sorry' but make no real effort to look inside and change? Then there is no 'development.'

Other than conduct codes, daily martial arts classes don't really do any more for character development than just showing up to work on time with all your toys and acting civilly with your fellows.

Excellent post.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

I was always under the impression that character development was part of the martial arts. Someone would not be taught the higher levels of the art if they did not demonstrate proper character.

Peace,
FB

No. Not all arts have the goal of developing character. While some attempt to do so, many others give it little consideration at all. Some on this forum would say that the latter systems aren't "true" martial arts. In doing so they discount a huge number of systems from various countries throughout Asia and the West.

Regards,


Steve

 

[RRouuselot]

However the movements of a style are the physical enactment of its principles and its philosophy.And naturally enough a prinicple is not applicable to every situation.Therefore there will always be instances where it would be better to enact a different principle, just as there will be instances where the principle is the right one to use.I hope Im not talking crap here, it made sense inside my head.

It makes sense

 

[ppko]

2) As for some styles not teaching self-defense very well……it’s true some don’t, but it is not the fault of the art but the instructor.

And sometimes it goes down a long list of instructors.

 

[ppko]

Hi all. havent been posting for a while. Guess I got too scared in case my opinions got bashed!!!! I am only a nvoice in MA, and most of the advise on these forums are really good. I think people need to realise that there are different ways of looking at things. It is always good to get other opinions. Helps to look at thinks in different prospectives. Tunnel vision is not a good thing.

Glad to see you back here what happened to Sarah

 

[Fbettincourt]

Regarding character development, Loki, you are correct. Too many people make the same mistake over and over again. Constant and never ending improvement is what I was referring to. We all make mistakes, that is a given. What we learn from those mistakes and how we use it to propel our lives forward, is but a vehicle that the martial arts can be useful for, in addition to self defense.

peace,

FB

 

[Sin]

Bashers are not True Maists...

For Example

PPKO and I have had our differences....and in the beginning we did bash on each other....Now I would consider him an internet buddy of mine. In the beginning I was blinded by ignorence and prejeduice...and I came to relize...its not about who you learned from...its about what you know and how you use your knowledge and your skill. that is why he is one Martial talker that i would like to meet...one day.

bashing gets us no where..........

Its when we agree to Disagree we truely gain knowledge.

 

[loki09789]

Regarding character development, Loki, you are correct. Too many people make the same mistake over and over again. Constant and never ending improvement is what I was referring to. We all make mistakes, that is a given. What we learn from those mistakes and how we use it to propel our lives forward, is but a vehicle that the martial arts can be useful for, in addition to self defense.

peace,

FB

The other thing to consider is how we, individually, define our habits/tendencies/personallity traits as either 'good' or 'bad' and pidgeon hole ourselves.

Is it that you are making the same 'mistakes' because you aren't changing yourself or because you aren't developing the personal awareness and integrity to say to yourself:

" I know that I am a chocaholic and if I get around it, I won't stop eating - even when I know I should. So, except for holidays - when I let myself indulge - I won't buy it, store it, keep it in the house."

The example is a safe one so as not to insult anyone, but the same idea could be applied to any habit/ideosyncracy that you know exists.

Sometimes the mistake isn't in the habit (because that may be just 'the way you are') but in whether or not you 'break the cycle' that leads up to those moments when that 'mistake' will be repeated over and over....

 

[loki09789]

Bashers are not True Maists...

For Example

PPKO and I have had our differences....and in the beginning we did bash on each other....Now I would consider him an internet buddy of mine. In the beginning I was blinded by ignorence and prejeduice...and I came to relize...its not about who you learned from...its about what you know and how you use your knowledge and your skill. that is why he is one Martial talker that i would like to meet...one day.

bashing gets us no where..........

Its when we agree to Disagree we truely gain knowledge.

Bashers ARE True MArtists IMO, just at a particular point in personal evolution. To label someone a 'basher' or 'non basher' as being 'in' or 'out' of the cool club is as bad as being a basher. Acknowledging that 'character development' is a life long journey and not subject to the instant gratifications that outsiders impose on our own development.

How can we be patient with ourselve, forgive ourselve our faults - and therefore 'let go of them' instead of dwelling on them (self fulfilled prophecy) if we let such labels act as permanent brands?

I got interested and exposed to eastern philosophy because of MA but, honestly, I practice MA for the purpose of self defense not 'character development.' The tools that I use for 'character development' are influenced by those things that I learned as I developed as a martial artist - but the same could be said for how any other athelete can develop if the coach/team/league has a philosophy beyond just winning and wants to develop work ethic, honesty, teamwork.....

\

 

[loki09789]

Regarding character development, Loki, you are correct. Too many people make the same mistake over and over again. Constant and never ending improvement is what I was referring to. We all make mistakes, that is a given. What we learn from those mistakes and how we use it to propel our lives forward, is but a vehicle that the martial arts can be useful for, in addition to self defense.

peace,

FB

MA, if taught with that goal in mind, is a good tool for teaching character lessons and reinforcing good character habits.

Boy Scouts, Sports, chores at home, part time jobs, school, military service, volunteering ....all are good developers/reinforcers of 'life lessons' if someone mentors you through the process of contemplating what you did well and what you need to improve.

I have learned the most from getting fired, getting dumped (emotionally and in MA class) and falling flat on my face more than I have from getting cheered or pat on the back.

 

[ppko]

PPKO and I have had our differences....and in the beginning we did bash on each other....Now I would consider him an internet buddy of mine. In the beginning I was blinded by ignorence and prejeduice...and I came to relize...its not about who you learned from...its about what you know and how you use your knowledge and your skill. that is why he is one Martial talker that i would like to meet...one day.

bashing gets us no where..........

Its when we agree to Disagree we truely gain knowledge.

I consider you a internet buddy as well like I always have said any one that wishes to come down and visit my school is welcome to do so. We will all truelly start to pick up more knowledge when we empty our cups and allow new ideas to pass. You are right bashing will get us no where, what people need to do is if they do not understand a style check it out, not everyone is as good at putting stuff on the net as they are at doing there arts.

 

[Kenpobuff]

Isn't there a belt creed or oath that addresses not speaking ill of other instructors?

 

[ppko]

Isn't there a belt creed or oath that addresses not speaking ill of other instructors?

There may be, but if you look at it like this, fueds have been happening in the Martial Arts for forever, much like religion you will never get the fueds to stop.