Avoiding "cognitive tunneling"

[Dirty Dog]

You're right in that humans cannot multi-task, but we can task-switch rapidly. And that is, I think, the only way to avoid the tunneling you're describing.
The only way I know of to practice this is (as others have mentioned) to incorporate random outside events into your drills. Like having a spectator randomly smack you in the head.
The problem with this is that your mind then learns to task-switch when you're drilling, but not necessarily other times.
I guess we could all go the Inspector Clouseau route, and hire someone to randomly attack us, but that seems impractical.

 

[Steve]

It does, and it's also the only good (bad) answer I've come up with, thus far. That's why I asked here. I think scenario training and/or competitions give some help in this. I think multiple-attacker scenarios and drills help some in this area. I just don't think either gives us that answer to having to change states. I'm imagining adding some sort of Kato-like suprise attacks in the dojo. I'd have to contemplate how to make that safe for students (and me, as Kato). I don't think it necessarily has to be in the specific situation (though that would be best), so long as you're training the mind to a specific reaction to that state change.

With regards to the Kato attack scenarios, I think you'd need to be very careful which students you spring this on. It could go really bad.

I also wonder how helpful it would really be. I mean, it seems like it would need to become a regular and routine part of your training in order for it to change the way a person responds. At worst, occasional exposure risks undermining the confidence of your student by getting in their head that they will freeze when the **** hits the fan. Which is exactly the opposite effect you're looking for.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You're right in that humans cannot multi-task, but we can task-switch rapidly. And that is, I think, the only way to avoid the tunneling you're describing.
The only way I know of to practice this is (as others have mentioned) to incorporate random outside events into your drills. Like having a spectator randomly smack you in the head.
The problem with this is that your mind then learns to task-switch when you're drilling, but not necessarily other times.
I guess we could all go the Inspector Clouseau route, and hire someone to randomly attack us, but that seems impractical.

Yep. We do a good Job at task-switching except when "zoning out" nothing seems to work when someone is just not in the room mentally.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yep. We do a good Job at task-switching except when "zoning out" nothing seems to work when someone is just not in the room mentally.

Or, similarly, when the "fight or flight" reflex kicks in. We pretty much stop task switching then, too. This is instinctive and pretty much hardwired into us. Countering such instincts has limited success.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

With regards to the Kato attack scenarios, I think you'd need to be very careful which students you spring this on. It could go really bad.

I also wonder how helpful it would really be. I mean, it seems like it would need to become a regular and routine part of your training in order for it to change the way a person responds. At worst, occasional exposure risks undermining the confidence of your student by getting in their head that they will freeze when the **** hits the fan. Which is exactly the opposite effect you're looking for.

As I said, I'd have to figure out rules that keep it safe - not sure if that's possible. I wouldn't want to go all-out Kato style, just something to disrupt the routine drills, so there shouldn't be any problem with freezing.

The point would be to give students a chance to test a cognitive model designed to avoid tunneling. If they're doing well with it, no tunneling should occur.

Clearly something I'm just bouncing around in my head. Not sure if it will ever turn into a workable idea.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Or, similarly, when the "fight or flight" reflex kicks in. We pretty much stop task switching then, too. This is instinctive and pretty much hardwired into us. Countering such instincts has limited success.

This is the issue - if we know the stress is coming (like with a competition), there's no sudden change of state. Pilots didn't used to have the issues seen in that Air France flight, because they were always flying the plane. Once automation took over the routine portion of the flight (pilots only having to manually control about 10 minutes of the flight), there was potential for the problem.

 

[Dirty Dog]

As I said, I'd have to figure out rules that keep it safe - not sure if that's possible. I wouldn't want to go all-out Kato style, just something to disrupt the routine drills, so there shouldn't be any problem with freezing.

The point would be to give students a chance to test a cognitive model designed to avoid tunneling. If they're doing well with it, no tunneling should occur.

Clearly something I'm just bouncing around in my head. Not sure if it will ever turn into a workable idea.

Free sparring against multiple opponents does help some, but the reality is that you still cannot focus on three different people at once, so if I attack while you're in mid-technique vs another person, I have a very good chance of landing the shot.

 

[drop bear]

You reduce the level of stress that you impose on yourself when you fight. So either learn to fight. Or accept you might loose or do a combination of both.

Otherwise you develop a set of rational steps to mechanically counter the issue. Like a fire drill. Which will work but is slow in fighting terms.

 

[drop bear]

This is the issue - if we know the stress is coming (like with a competition), there's no sudden change of state. Pilots didn't used to have the issues seen in that Air France flight, because they were always flying the plane. Once automation took over the routine portion of the flight (pilots only having to manually control about 10 minutes of the flight), there was potential for the problem.

Yes there is. in training leading up. People freak out to all sorts of berserk levels. And train through it.

 

[hoshin1600]

cognitive tunneling .....
i like that phrase. i never heard it before. i have been using congnitive dissonance in a lot of my training and dividing it up into different segments. i will have to start using this ,, thanks.

probably a throwback to being attacked by predators, and was valuable if you were being attacked by a single predator.

I also wonder if cognitive tunneling might be responsible for some of the "I never saw the knife" scenarios.

i believe these are two separate things. similar but separate.
studies on human behavior during a fire has found that people would continually try to open a locked door over and over and would not stop and look for alternative exits. even when a window was next to the door. i agree this is a primal instinct to a predator. if you have an animal locked onto you, you will pound it with a rock over and over until it lets go. we see this in modern fights as well, when one person is repeatedly punching over and over with the same hand. the mind seems to "lock on" to this one response waiting for the circumstance to improve.

you may be right but not seeing a knife i usually attribute to the adrenal arousal state. tunnel vision happens along with quite a few other side effects caused by the increase in heart rate and chemical dump. but you dont always get tunnel vision, depends on the chemically increased heart rate that the individual experiences.

switching gears from everyday life and auto pilot to a state of response where you can make decisions,,,, hummm ill have to think about this one.

 

[drop bear]

With regards to the Kato attack scenarios, I think you'd need to be very careful which students you spring this on. It could go really bad.

I also wonder how helpful it would really be. I mean, it seems like it would need to become a regular and routine part of your training in order for it to change the way a person responds. At worst, occasional exposure risks undermining the confidence of your student by getting in their head that they will freeze when the **** hits the fan. Which is exactly the opposite effect you're looking for.

We played it at work. With markers. Water bombs and occasional fist fights.

The gane was to mark a guy without being punched in the face.

 

[hoshin1600]

Speed Freaks: Tunnel Vision and Physiological Perception | Psych 256: Introduction to Cognitive Psychology

"Studies have suggested that humans are capable of normally processing approximately 13-15 frames per second of vision (Deering, 1998). It is estimated that the average human is comfortable processing information in a close-proximity moving environment, such as driving, at no more than 72 MPH."

"what is referred to in aviation as g-LOC, or g-induced loss of consciousness. That would be where a human is physiologically overloaded by stimuli,"

Tunnel Vision or General Interference? Cognitive Load and Attentional Bias Are Both Important on JSTOR

"when the is to much information the useful field contracts to prevent overloading of the visual system."

 

[Gerry Seymour]

cognitive tunneling .....
i like that phrase. i never heard it before. i have been using congnitive dissonance in a lot of my training and dividing it up into different segments. i will have to start using this ,, thanks.




i believe these are two separate things. similar but separate.
studies on human behavior during a fire has found that people would continually try to open a locked door over and over and would not stop and look for alternative exits. even when a window was next to the door. i agree this is a primal instinct to a predator. if you have an animal locked onto you, you will pound it with a rock over and over until it lets go. we see this in modern fights as well, when one person is repeatedly punching over and over with the same hand. the mind seems to "lock on" to this one response waiting for the circumstance to improve.

you may be right but not seeing a knife i usually attribute to the adrenal arousal state. tunnel vision happens along with quite a few other side effects caused by the increase in heart rate and chemical dump. but you dont always get tunnel vision, depends on the chemically increased heart rate that the individual experiences.

switching gears from everyday life and auto pilot to a state of response where you can make decisions,,,, hummm ill have to think about this one.

Cognitive dissonance is a different phenomenon. That's where new evidence doesn't match a cognitive paradigm. So, for instance, if you and I had been taught - and truly believed - that a knife can't cut you if you are moving, then we see someone get cut while moving, that presents a cognitive dissonance. The brain has only two choices for that new information: use it to change the paradigm, or ignore the information.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i believe these are two separate things. similar but separate.
studies on human behavior during a fire has found that people would continually try to open a locked door over and over and would not stop and look for alternative exits. even when a window was next to the door. i agree this is a primal instinct to a predator. if you have an animal locked onto you, you will pound it with a rock over and over until it lets go. we see this in modern fights as well, when one person is repeatedly punching over and over with the same hand. the mind seems to "lock on" to this one response waiting for the circumstance to improve.

That defnitely sounds like cognitive tunneling - good example. Very much like the pilot who kept trying to keep the wings level even though that had nothing to do with the problem at hand (an aerodynamic stall).

you may be right but not seeing a knife i usually attribute to the adrenal arousal state. tunnel vision happens along with quite a few other side effects caused by the increase in heart rate and chemical dump. but you dont always get tunnel vision, depends on the chemically increased heart rate that the individual experiences

Adrenal arousal is certainly a major contributor, since it literally narrows vision. I suspect that cognitive tunneling contributes in some instances, for instance, if the defender is overly focused on a part of the attacker's body that isn't near the hand. In that case, especially combined with tunnel vision, they'd have little chance of seeing even a large knife.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Speed Freaks: Tunnel Vision and Physiological Perception | Psych 256: Introduction to Cognitive Psychology

"Studies have suggested that humans are capable of normally processing approximately 13-15 frames per second of vision (Deering, 1998). It is estimated that the average human is comfortable processing information in a close-proximity moving environment, such as driving, at no more than 72 MPH."

"what is referred to in aviation as g-LOC, or g-induced loss of consciousness. That would be where a human is physiologically overloaded by stimuli,"

Tunnel Vision or General Interference? Cognitive Load and Attentional Bias Are Both Important on JSTOR

"when the is to much information the useful field contracts to prevent overloading of the visual system."

This sounds like it may at least partly explain the process taking place when they were below 4,000 feet, and the pilot could no longer see his display. I'll need to read those in depth.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Free sparring against multiple opponents does help some, but the reality is that you still cannot focus on three different people at once, so if I attack while you're in mid-technique vs another person, I have a very good chance of landing the shot.

True. The point I'm making is that this is exacerbated if cognitive tunneling is taking place, because I'm unlikely to be aware you even exist in the fight, so I'll make no effort to avoid having my back to you, for instance.

 

[Juany118]

The issue is that cognitive tunneling seems to defy simple training (by which I mean training the mind to pay attention to a wider focus, as with multiple-man randori). It can happen to extremely experienced airline pilots, when they have (literally) been on auto-pilot and something happens that requires they take control of the plane. They can focus on a single gauge or control to the exclusion of the other things they'd normally pay attention to.

That's not to say that multiple-man scenarios (including randori) aren't good. They absolutely are, and I suspect they are part of an answer. It looks like cognitive models (a picture to compare a situation to, and a pre-determined sequence to revert to) are an important part of avoiding cognitive tunneling.

I think this article does a good explanation. You can train to deal with it, the thing is you need to extensively practice muscle memory. This Is Your Brain On War The part I found most interesting regarding this conversation are the following...

That’s because, at its most extreme, vasoconstriction affects the brain, too. “As the blood drains from the face, blood drains from the forebrain, and there’s no rational thought,” Grossman explains. “I call that ‘condition black.’ And at condition black, the midbrain is in charge, and you’ll do what you’ve been trained to do — no more, no less. You will do what you’ve been programmed to do — no more, no less.”

Thus, if a soldier reaches condition black and lacks adequate training, there’s a good chance he or she will freeze up. A well-trained soldier, on the other hand, will likely take action to neutralize the threat. “Given a clear and present danger, with today’s training almost everyone will shoot,

and

A soldier’s vision can also be affected by combat, and Grossman uses two different so-called predator models — the “charging lion” and the “wolf-pack dynamic” — to explain this. Most soldiers experience tunnel vision. “The charging lion is like a heat-seeking missile. He locks onto one target and never lets go,” he says. “That’s tunnel vision.”

Sometimes, however, instead of zeroing in on his target, a soldier becomes intensely aware of all the moving parts on the battlefield, like a wolf hunting with its pack. “That’s what we want,” Grossman says. “When I work with high level civilian operators, like LAPD SWAT, it’s amazing to see how they’ve evolved. Almost all of them move between these two models: zooming in to eliminate a target and then back out to see everything going on.”

It takes a lot of training to do these things. Its why the Army changed the protocols for the National Guard to be deployed and added a lot more training before deployment (initially National Guard personnel hit "condition black" a lot.) However with adequate training your reactions can be automatic. I think the issue with the pilot is that the reason one needs to take control of the aircraft can be so variable. Do they need to increase power to climb? Take other evasive action? etc. While a sudden combat encounter has variables there are typically, in my experience, fewer "openers" that you can use to give your brain to "catch up" so to speak.

 

[drop bear]

True. The point I'm making is that this is exacerbated if cognitive tunneling is taking place, because I'm unlikely to be aware you even exist in the fight, so I'll make no effort to avoid having my back to you, for instance.

Yeah but you may be using prearranged tactics that limit your risk a bit. So to a certain degree you don't need to know they are there.

That is partly how slipping works. You go in and out at the angles they are less likely to capitalise on.

 

[Buka]

I don't think there's any one drill. Not sure if any group of drills just added to a curriculum would work, either. But we did some that I think helped with what we did on a regular basis.

The first tempo setter for all my students, a veritable carved in stone first rule, was "Protect yourself at all times." I always believed it helped students develop awareness over a long period of time, and stayed with them years afterwards. At least that's what former students have always told me, even decades later.

When we sparred, I would always spar with everybody at some point. Sometimes, in the middle of sparring, I'd fake twisting a leg/ankle, and my opponent pause....and get blitzed slapped for doing it. Now, before you make any judgements, we had hard and fast rules about disengaging during sparring or any contact fighting drills. Pausing/stopping was NOT one of them. And everyone knew it. The chorus of people waiting to sparr would always chime "protect yourself at all times!"

I never cared for Floyd Mayweather, as a person. Loved watching him work though. But one time, I wanted to shake his hand.

Cheap shot? Sure. Almost as cheap as the lunging head-butt Ortiz threw beforehand. But Ortiz did not do what EVERY boxing ref tells every fighter. "Protect yourself at all times." To me, it's part of a mindset. (one little tiny thing, of many, to avoid a mindset that allows cognitive tunnelling to creep in and manifest.)

We used to do a drill, best with at least twenty people. (the more the merrier). Every one's name went into a hat and you picked. That was your "target". Then....we put the names back and you picked again. That was your second target.

We designated a space, usually a couple of taped off sparring areas (around twenty by twenty) that were next to each other, sometimes we used the area outside the dressing rooms. And you would mill about as if in a crowd in the subway, only circling, going against the grain, reversing direction, zigging - all at a slow, relaxed pace, sometimes talking, singing, talking smack, whatever. The whole time you would keep your eyes on your target, without letting them know you were doing so. The area was always small enough so your were always rubbing elbows, brushing against everyone and having to reverse direction or turn so you would stay within the designated area.

Your goal was twofold. First - you wanted to slap your target in the head. (had to get your primary target before you could go for your second) Not hard enough to hurt, just to annoy. You didn't do it the first chance you got, or even the second or third, sometimes you waited and waited. (The target's job was to avoid the slap) Your second goal was to notice who was stalking YOU and take positional steps to thwart them. (another little tiny thing in a process of awareness)

Another drill we sometimes did was with a golf ball in a sock. You would stand almost against a wall.(cup, mouthpiece, painters goggles
A couple guys were twenty feet away, swinging the sock/ball and let them fly. Again, not trying to kill anyone, just smack them hard.
Then you would add a third sock thrower. Guy against the wall had to move (or block), without moving too far away. Once you got used to it, we rubbed vaseline onto the goggles, blurring everything. It was a good instinctual drill. Got a few lumps on occasion, but nothing to write home about. It made you work off gross motion instead of detailed motion. You couldn't tunnel if you wanted to

Another drill, which might also fit into what you're asking, was a vision drill we used for multiples. (Originated from prison yards a long time ago) It wasn't so much the "vision" itself, but rather, how to take advantage of it. By itself, maybe nothing, but added to the actual multiple fight training that followed, it helped, I believe, the whole tunnel thing.

If you stand and look straight ahead, without moving your eyes, your field of vision is cone shaped. Your peripheral vision/ field of vision, can see a certain length/width to the sides and up and down, and everywhere in between, in more or less a conical shape, without moving your eyes.

You stand in the middle of the floor. Your partner stands facing you, about five feet away. You stare into each other's eyes. Your partners job is to make sure you don't move your eyes (only using your peripheral vision)

Two more people stand to your right and left, about twenty feet back. They are about three or four feet off to each side. They slowly, and very quietly, take baby steps moving forward. Their goal is not to approach your back, they do not veer in, their goal is to see how close they can come to be standing beside you. (again, a few feet to the side). You will eventually pick up on them when they are anywhere from a foot back, to an inch back, or right beside you. When you do see them, you point with the corresponding arm and say "there"

Now you repeat the drill, except rather than staring at the eyes of your partner in front of you, you look a foot ahead of his feet. This lowers the cone of vision, taking out a lot of upwards vision, and replacing it with added vision on the low line, some of it behind you.

Repeat the drill of the two people taking quiet, baby steps coming up behind you. You'll spot them a couple of yards earlier. I mentioned this came from prison yards. People in prison yards don't play nice. If you were a target, you either had to stay out of the yard altogether, or keep your vision low in order to be less likely to be bushwhacked from behind because you could see approaching enemies quicker and easier. (it was originally taught to Law Enforcement years ago, by ex cons, prison film confirmed it)

You've all probably played Bull in the Ring at some point. We did too, but sometimes put some twists in it. An instructor would walk around and whisper into the ears of everyone in the ring. Say nothing to some, but naming a target for others. So you would rush the man in the middle and sometimes keep going and attack someone in the outside ring. Brief attack. Or sometimes if you were given a target you would wait until he attacked the man in the middle and either come up behind him or intercept him. All part of protecting yourself at all times.

When surprise, and the preparation of always being vigilant, is worked enough, it sometimes takes hold. I believe it decreases the likely hood of a narrow vision in combat.

Speaking of combat, one of the first things I was taught about shooting, was to check the background of my target. Drilled into me over and over, like a broken record, it's all we heard. There were times that I thought it might slow me down. And maybe it did, but it gave me a better awareness of total picture. And I believe it kept my focus from narrowing under stress. I might still crap my pants in fear, but it keeps me reading information better from all sides. I hope it's still drilled as much as it was with us.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think this article does a good explanation. You can train to deal with it, the thing is you need to extensively practice muscle memory. This Is Your Brain On War The part I found most interesting regarding this conversation are the following...



and



It takes a lot of training to do these things. Its why the Army changed the protocols for the National Guard to be deployed and added a lot more training before deployment (initially National Guard personnel hit "condition black" a lot.) However with adequate training your reactions can be automatic. I think the issue with the pilot is that the reason one needs to take control of the aircraft can be so variable. Do they need to increase power to climb? Take other evasive action? etc. While a sudden combat encounter has variables there are typically, in my experience, fewer "openers" that you can use to give your brain to "catch up" so to speak.

That certainly speaks to ongoing training being an important component, so we develop automated reactions. I'm not convinced that's a solution for CT, though, since attention to a single stimulus still leaves us using an automated reaction to only that stimulus. I think I have time for research tomorrow to dig deeper into the processes involved. Perhaps there's been enough research to provide some suggestions.