Atacx gym judo: Self defense flavio cantos strangle variant

[Chris Parker]

Your opinion that what I did isn't judo doesn't mean that it isn't Judo. You have not specified any Judo mechanics tactics etc etc that I violated or didn't employ that buttresses your position. You have simply restated your opinion. You are entitled to your opinion, regardless of how wayward and denuded of fact that it may be.

For crying out loud, Ras, I'm saying it's not Judo for precisely the same reasons that the Judoka here are saying it's not Judo. Because it's not Judo. There are some small elements taken from Judo, but that's not the same thing at all. And as far as specifying Judo mechanics and tactics that you violated, I said you didn't have any, not that you got them wrong... they just weren't present.

And here's a clue for happy conversation and healthy debate. When you can't actually argue against someones comments, saying that your critics comments are "wayward, denuded of fact" etc just shows you don't have any real argument yourself. And you look like a petty child saying "I know you are, but what am I?". Again, grow up.

Are you definitively saying that I cannot execute this technique on somebody wearing a t-shirt?

Without the t-shirt ripping? What I'm saying is that the choke you used relied on the harder, stiffer material of a gi, and a t-shirt reacts quite differently, sliding a lot or ripping. Of course, now you're going to tell us how you used this exact move against ten gang members with knives, who were all wearing t-shirts, yeah? Even though the video and your comments claim that this was a random action that you happened upon in sparring....

this technique can be used in a self-defense throwdown, although I haven't done so. Yet. Lol. You still haven't shown in any way shape or form how the above isn't Judo.

I don't need to show that it isn't Judo, as it's devoid of almost anything from Judo whatsoever. You, with your black belt in Judo (from where, again?) should be able to immediately say "It is Judo, and here's why". You haven't been able to do that, nor have you been able to deal with any criticism leveled at you.

We differ on the definition of sparring. You have told me what you think self defense ISN'T. Can you tell me what you think self defense IS? And what tactics are exclusively the purview of self defense? And how do you train these tactics?

That is a long conversation....

To be brief, though, self defence is concerned with one simple aim: get home safe. The tactics are geared around this concept, being brief, gross-motor, high-return, and adaptable. And I train these tactics by training them.

 

[Yondanchris]

Thanks for sharing,

It's good to see the belt put to good use!

 

[Twin Fist]

omce again, the eye of the actually trained points out that ras, doesnt actually know anything.

 

[ATACX GYM]

At the beginning when his hand is on your shoulder.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

In truth when we were sparring a few weeks ago [ I was sparring with another guy, not Chris ] we were striking and wound up clinching/scrambling/grip fighting. I simply wanted to bypass that aspect to get to the variant of the strangle that I was showing. The grip we took was designed to facilitate that desire of mine. Thank you.

 

[ATACX GYM]

You might want to look at the video again. Your words(not exact) as you get the grip(which your cousin patiently waits for you to apply, it's not like you're grappling) "I'm locked in tight" Once you have your grip, he pushes and you release. If your cousin somehow broke your grip, it is not visible, at least to me. Somehow you find it faster and more efficient to release a solid grip to play with his hand(which at that point is not striking, although you point out the potential)then wrap a figure 4, rather than move your dominant hand maybe 6 inches to sink in a cross choke?

You know, if you and zenjael were in the same room, I'm pretty sure the disturbance in the force would be felt for at a 6 block radius.

Hello. Thank you for answering.

Okay, I see your point here [ I think, lol ]. I was making this video actually in response to a specific question regarding how I did my variant of the strangle I showed. I wasn't really trying to show the whole live fire grappling encounter. I was simply trying to show various relevant stages of the flow of events and really concentrate on the specifics of the strangle.

I will emphasize that point more for clarity should I ever shoot another grappling video like this. Thanks for the input.

Btw my actual words were:"...I pushed his hips back which allowed me to get the space to fire a handsword into his neck. When I did that I locked in tight [ 2.08 on the video ], he pressed me back down with his right arm..."

He actually did break my grip, though, with his "punch-grip counter". I didn't go into deep detail about that because that wasn't my main point. The self-defense stuff and executing this strangle from a pretty unusual set of circumstances was my main point.

In the actual flow of grappling with the guy I was grappling with, the Figure-4 wasn't really slapped on hard and clean; it was like 2/3 to 3/4 on. It hurt but not really bad. It did immobilize his arm to a pretty good degree. Otherwise he defended it pretty well. That's what occassioned my shifting into the strangle variant that I used. I see that I really didn't make that point clear either. I was honestly mainly thinking of the guys who asked the question, and I wasn't really thinking to post this video up on my ATACX GYM JUDO CHANNEL. I was just gonna email it to the guys. Somehow or other though I screwed up what I meant when I asked my brother to put it up on my Youtube Channel and thought afterwards...oh well.

Than 'zenjael' joke was funny though...

 

[ATACX GYM]

I don't have a black belt in any art, but I have been doing judo for a while in conjunction with karate, so I'll go ahead and give my input.

oaktree is correct--Kosen is a ruleset that a collection of schools adopted in Japan, but it was still Kodokan judo. Judo, as a martial art, does include leg locks and neck cranks, but they are no longer practiced by most judoka because they are illegal in competition. My first judo instructor (also my karate instructor) learned judo from someone who included those techniques because the person he learned from passed them on, etc.

This video demonstrates what appears to be kuzure jigoku-jime, or a modified hell choke. Jigoku-jime is in judo and is normally done from a back mounted crucifix position, whereas he is in a guard position applying a similar (not the same--there are certainly big differences) concept of isolating the arms, grabbing the lapel and using the leg to push his opponent into the choke. The entire explanation of the setup was unnecessary and detracts from the actual technique that was being demonstrated because you make it appear to require a specific set of conditions, whereas you could simply throw this up from guard in a number of situations. That said, your technique has a major, and I do mean MAJOR, flaw in that you never actually isolated BOTH arms--all he had to do to relieve the pressure from the choke and escape was push your leg off the back of his head.

As for what you did being judo...well...it was sort of judo.

ETA: If you want to get technical, the jigoku-jime I described with the leg over the head is already a kuzure (modified) version of the original.

As I understand it, Kosen is basically a subset of Kodokan. Judo=Kodokan Judo. But the martial art aspect includes all sorts of cranks and techniques that are not allowed in the sportive aspect of Judo. I was focusing on the self-defense area.

How this video came about was: A couple guys who we train with periodically rolled with us and I managed to get this strangle on one of them. Since it was from an unusual position a few guys kept asking about it. I said I'd show them but they didn't make it back that day so they asked me to shoot a video and I did. No biggie, thought I. Lol. I really meant to email the video to them on their youtube or whatever it was and I asked my brother to handle that. Usually I put stuff on my Channel too, it got put on my Channel--my brother says I told him to put it there and he's probably right, I don't recall honestly--and okay it's on my ATACX GYM JUDO CHANNEL now.

I actually DID have both arms though. The right arm was in a 2/3 to 3/4 Figure-4 and the left arm I'd hooked with my foot. I released the hold to show the specifics of the manuever by finishing it with a roll to my right knee. It's alot harder to get out of that choke than it appears, but it can be done...it's just a matter of timing. Pushing my leg off won't do it though...you have to push, move, defend the choke, spin out and under. But I made that really hard to do by almost fully Figure-4'ing the right arm and hooking the left arm with my right foot.

But thank you for your comments. I learned a few things from all of you. 'Preciate it.

 

[ATACX GYM]

Out of curiousity, as your sparring includes all attacks, how do you differentiate between sparring and self defense? Is one where the attacks are not pushed to their fullest conclusion?

Correct. The self-defense attacks aren't pushed to their fullest conclusion. We go for it, but we don't want people with gouged out eyes or knife slashed groins so we utilize the appropriate protective measures and the appropriate restraint. It's still pretty darn raw though. And it's fun.