Atacx gym capoeira: You can fight with it

[ATACX GYM]

As others have said, for some this may be the ideal art, while someone else, maybe not. I glanced at the thread FC mentioned. Its a long one, so I didn't read every post, but as he said, he posted some good info about the art. When I have a bit more time, I'll read thru it more in-depth. I guess for me, and I'll go back to my TKD ref. I made....but when all you see is A, its hard to convince people there's a B, C and D in the art as well. This art is rare in my area, so all I have to go on is video, FWIW.

In most cases I agree with you, MJS. But I would very much caution against conflating a whole art with the way that you perceive various practitioners practicing that art. Tai Chi, for example, isn't known for producing ,monster modern day combatants...despite its storied history of doing exactly that in China's past. I know a pretty decent number of Tai Chi techs and practice them, and I have every confidence that I can do and shall continue to whomp copious gluteus with them. I can say with dead certainty that anyone on this site who's confident with a palm strike, a push, a trip, arm drag, limb whips and manipulations, is also doing things that Tai Chi is far famed for. They just practice it differently, train it differently, express it differently...but a palm strike is a palm strike. And having a 5th dan in TKD? I can say without a doubt that I've cracked maaany a person with the kicks that I was trained to use and got very satisfactory results from it, thanks. Lol.

 

[ATACX GYM]

the wacky dance isnt the sole source of "ring generalship" you can learn that anywhere. Just as Josh pointed out, lots of places can teach you a full guard and how to turn it into a arm bar.Nothing there that is a signature of the Lambada....

the clip in question is of a highly skilled fighter, no question, but nothing he did was in any way an endorsement of any given style, regardless of what he calls himself. I could call myself the last king of scotland, wouldnt mean anything or be in anyway true.

if you really believe in this stuff, why do you care what anyone else thinks? you literally spend tens of thousands of words trying, in vain, to convince people you know what you claim to know, and tell all sorts of stories that make yourself sound quite superhuman. You dont need to, and frankly, it is a waste of time, cuz it isnt every convincing. Really tough guys dont have to say they are tough.

Here is the thing

You are clearly a BB level martial artist. Possibly even Master level, i cant tell.

You really seem to believe the stuff you are doing. You put all this stuff out there, but get upset when people dont agree with you. Get over it.

it doesnt matter what I or anyone else thinks. Allow people to agree, or not. Stop trying to browbeat people into agreeing with you.

It will never work. And it reflects poorly on you.

now i predict you will ignore this reasonable advice, and post another 5000 words about how tough you are, how many asses you can kick, how much i suck, etc etc etc some more quote from irrelevant texts, etc maybe even some more threats and challenges, you have a habit of doing that too.

please prove me wrong.

please take some time and think. Thinks about this perfectly reasonable bit of advice:

if you are sure you are right, you can afford to let others decide for themselves.

Okay...one more time for the people in the peanut gallery:

I'm not trying to change the minds of people who have made their minds up. I am merely offering my own and my students' own and several million other practitioners' own take on a much maligned martial art which my direct empirical experience shows that not only do most people have no idea what it REALLY is, their ignorance prevents them from experimenting with or considering the vast vaaasst ways in which such practice or considerations can greatly help them in their martial journey whether or not they believe or champion or practice capoeira in any way similar to or with the verve and passion for the art that I do.

I'm not browbeating anyone. I'm not angry or perturbed in the least by dissenting or differing opinions. If you have any idea of my history, you would know that I am not in the least bit upset by dissent or disagreeing opinions. Your injunction to "get over it" is appreciated but wholly unneccessary. I never "got on it" so I never have to "get over it". I'm not tryng to charm cajole or convince. I view this thread with exactly the same perception that most of us on any martial site tend to view things on the site...education. Valuable info that can help others as it's helped us on our martial journey. Take or reject from it what you like.

However, what you've done for the entirety of the previous thread and about 90% of the current thread is to deny the accuracy of what I have presented. That area is something that can be denied or affirmed in objective reality using science...especially the science of history. I displayed truths clothed in centuries of titanium fact and testimony, as relayed to us by the slavers...people who hated the capoeiristas most and were far and away the most vested literally in human history in their expungement and dehumanization. I hoped but didn't believe that such a presentation would have any impact whatsoever on your perspective, but I know from the raft of emails and PMs that I receive that such presentations had significant impact upon the "silent majority" who peruse this thread but never get involved in any back and forth via posting in this thread. It is for THEM and other open minded martial artists [ to a significant extent ] that I present the data that I do.

Hell, I go at it much more intensely than this thread can possibly show with actual capoeiristas...and we agree on all the extant pieces of info that I've shared with you so far. Our disagreements are in other areas.

You don't have to be a madd fan of boxing like me. If you're wholly unaware of street boxing but you have an open mind and look at what I present as something that might be beneficial and maybe with a twist here and a turn there you can add it to your own arsenal? That's very cool. If, for instance, I show links to the history of boxing and show clips of Ali and Willie Pep and prime Holyfield and prime Tyson and prime Hurricane and prime Pernell and prime Ricardo Lopez etc etc etc and all you get from that is..."boxing's not for me but I sure think I can use the ideas of keeping my hands up more often and adding head movement, twist it up and personalize it and help my own martial expression"...then that's a huge benefit and something akin to what I want to achieve with this thread.

Believe what you want, John. Sallgood man no static from me and no concern from me.

As for the clip in question? Marcus is well known in the capoeira community. Like I said, you and everyone else has the right to form their own opinion about whatever, but I'm taking the word of the man in the ring about what he does. If Ali says he's boxing, and everything he does conforms with my knowledge of boxing and the knowledge of boxing of other experts [ and in fact in many areas exceeds our collective knowledge] then I'm just not gonna put much stock in the opinion of a guy who says that Ali is really not boxing at all. I'll respect the right of the dissenter to dissent, but...he's clearly divorced from the overwhelming plethora of empirical evidence to the contrary. And he doesn't have to be aligned with it. Good luck to him...and I'm still staying with the most cogent logical empirical evidence as I see it that leads to the opinions that I've formed so far as I see it.

And honestly man...I put this thread up to discuss the topic of capoeira and directly challenge the gargantuan misunderstandings and deliberate untruths put out about it by those inimical to the art and those who are ignorant of the true art. Doing so necessarily requires jousting with those who've accepted those untruths and lies as facts. If such jousting isn't to your liking and whatnot? I understand. But you don't have to frequent the thread...just as I steer clear of your political threads for the most part.

 

[MJS]

In most cases I agree with you, MJS. But I would very much caution against conflating a whole art with the way that you perceive various practitioners practicing that art. Tai Chi, for example, isn't known for producing ,monster modern day combatants...despite its storied history of doing exactly that in China's past. I know a pretty decent number of Tai Chi techs and practice them, and I have every confidence that I can do and shall continue to whomp copious gluteus with them. I can say with dead certainty that anyone on this site who's confident with a palm strike, a push, a trip, arm drag, limb whips and manipulations, is also doing things that Tai Chi is far famed for. They just practice it differently, train it differently, express it differently...but a palm strike is a palm strike. And having a 5th dan in TKD? I can say without a doubt that I've cracked maaany a person with the kicks that I was trained to use and got very satisfactory results from it, thanks. Lol.

Again, my point was simply to show how easy it is for people to misunderstand an art. If all you see is one thing, it will be hard for anyone to comprehend there is anything different. Its just like the different cultures in the world. If I were to up and move to Germany, I'd have to adapt to their culture, and no doubt, I'd think, "Gee, this is how they drive over here?" When I've gone on vacations, many times, we were driving on the other side of the road. When all you're used to seeing is how we drive in the States, its hard to imagine driving on the other side.

Its true...go to youtube and watch TKD. 99% of the clips you'll see, will look similar, thus people will assume ALL TKD is like YT, when in reality it probably isnt. But again, thats the way it seems. Just like Kenpo and ground work. How many Kenpo schools really do it? Hell, you've said it yourself, with your clips.

As for what kick, punch, etc, is found in other arts....take a look at that thread I started about pure arts. Again, I've said it endless times, that we'll see the same kicks but application will differ. I dont doubt that capoeira has the same things in TKD, Kenpo, Shotokan, etc. Not disputing that. I'm saying for ME, its not an art that *I* would do. Just dont have the interest. I'm no gymnast...lol...so doing what they do isnt for me. I'd like to see a 400lb person jumping and moving like you see in TKD and Capoeira.

 

[Twin Fist]

i was so hoping to be wrong.

oh well.

 

[Twin Fist]

I'm no gymnast...lol...so doing what they do isnt for me. I'd like to see a 400lb person jumping and moving like you see in TKD and Capoeira.

i just want to see two of them actually ****ing SPAR where they hit something other than air.

 

[MJS]

i just want to see two of them actually ****ing SPAR where they hit something other than air.

Yup! This is why I enjoy my Kyokushin classes so much. Sad but true, I know, trust me, but I get a harder workout and more intense sparring, than I have ever got, in any Kenpo school that I've been to, to date.

 

[Tez3]

Again, my point was simply to show how easy it is for people to misunderstand an art. If all you see is one thing, it will be hard for anyone to comprehend there is anything different. Its just like the different cultures in the world. If I were to up and move to Germany, I'd have to adapt to their culture, and no doubt, I'd think, "Gee, this is how they drive over here?" When I've gone on vacations, many times, we were driving on the other side of the road. When all you're used to seeing is how we drive in the States, its hard to imagine driving on the other side.

Its true...go to youtube and watch TKD. 99% of the clips you'll see, will look similar, thus people will assume ALL TKD is like YT, when in reality it probably isnt. But again, thats the way it seems. Just like Kenpo and ground work. How many Kenpo schools really do it? Hell, you've said it yourself, with your clips.

As for what kick, punch, etc, is found in other arts....take a look at that thread I started about pure arts. Again, I've said it endless times, that we'll see the same kicks but application will differ. I dont doubt that capoeira has the same things in TKD, Kenpo, Shotokan, etc. Not disputing that. I'm saying for ME, its not an art that *I* would do. Just dont have the interest. I'm no gymnast...lol...so doing what they do isnt for me. I'd like to see a 400lb person jumping and moving like you see in TKD and Capoeira.

You do know they drive on the same side of the road in Germany as you do lol? however on the autobahns there are no speed limits.......

 

[Jenna]

I put this thread up to discuss the topic of capoeira and directly challenge the gargantuan misunderstandings and deliberate untruths put out about it

Would it be ok if I ask why this is important to you?

 

[Twin Fist]

Yup! This is why I enjoy my Kyokushin classes so much. Sad but true, I know, trust me, but I get a harder workout and more intense sparring, than I have ever got, in any Kenpo school that I've been to, to date.

that prob always going to be true.

i hate to say it, but if kenpo has a flaw, it is that Ed Parker made it so scientific, that generations of BB spend thier time thinking instead of banging.

thats why i am into kaju now instead of going back to kenpo. Kaju they have enough kenpo to make it practical, but they HIT. Just an example, nearly every kaju technique has a groin shot in it. My Sigung will make you do it again if he doesnt hear the cup "pop" when you do the technique.

no pop? do it again.

 

[ATACX GYM]

Would it be ok if I ask why this is important to you?

Certainly you may ask, Jenna, and thank you very much for doing so.


I answered this question in large part already in one of my previous posts on this thread: "...I am merely offering my own and my students' own and several million other practitioners' own take on a [ undeservedly ] much maligned martial art which my direct empirical experience shows that not only do most people have no idea what it REALLY is, their ignorance prevents them from experimenting with or considering the vast vaaasst ways in which such practice or considerations can greatly help them in their martial journey whether or not they believe or champion or practice capoeira in any way similar to or with the verve and passion for the art that I do...

...I'm not tryng to charm cajole or convince. I view this thread with exactly the same perception that most of us on any martial site tend to view things on the site...education [ oftentimes achieved by a mixture of shared facts, opinions, discussions, debates, and the hypothesis and conclusions reached therefrom and thereafter]... Valuable info that can help others as it's helped us on our martial journey. Take or reject from it what you like...

...You don't have to be a madd fan of boxing like me. If you're wholly unaware of street boxing but you have an open mind and look at what I present as something that might be beneficial and maybe with a twist here and a turn there you can add it to your own arsenal? That's very cool. If, for instance, I show links to the history of boxing and show clips of Ali and Willie Pep and prime Holyfield and prime Tyson and prime Hurricane and prime Pernell and prime Ricardo Lopez etc etc etc and all you get from that is..."boxing's not for me but I sure think I can use the ideas of keeping my hands up more often and adding head movement, twist it up and personalize it and help my own martial expression"...then that's a huge benefit and something akin to what I want to achieve with this thread..."

hope that helps. I can expound further if you like.


And I intend to put up more videos later this week mayhap early next. And the techs will be done at greater speed, I promise. Lol.

 

[ATACX GYM]

Yup! This is why I enjoy my Kyokushin classes so much. Sad but true, I know, trust me, but I get a harder workout and more intense sparring, than I have ever got, in any Kenpo school that I've been to, to date.

Sparring is mandatory in my classes. There is never ever ever a day that passes without sparring. The only reasons that I haven't shown sparring on these capoeira videos is that the guys object to it and the power of the capoeira techs combined with our lack of protective gear during the filming makes taking the risk of being hit while doing capoeira very very unwise. A single blow can does and will break bones, render people unconscious, launch you through the air, slam you hard to the ground with takedowns tackles throws, etc. Not kidding.

I have put up videos of me bareknuckle sparring, doing muay thai kickboxing, etc. but I have yet to work out the combo of protective gear and timing with my guys and mostly willingness to be filmed while we do our variant of capoeira.

Our capoeira is a blend of kyokushin, judo, greco, bjj, savate, kenpo, HKD, TKD, gungfu, kali, CQB, bareknuckle boxing and kickboxing old skool Muay Thai and Muay Boran style, Testa, etc etc. Truthfully? As we advance, we don't really make distinctions based upon "style" but instead we do specific drills that work on contextual skill sets. For instance, we have drills wherein you have to take a kenpo tech like say Heavenly Ascent and use it against all comers. The attackers may be armed, they may be grappling, you may start with your back to your opponent and already in a half RNC or half Nelson, there may be more than one attacker. Whatever. You still gotta do Heavenly Ascent. You might be told...pull off an S-Dobrado to au escape [like what happened yesterday] and you gotta deal with whatever is thrown at you from whatever situation I can think of. I require rolls to be done, etc etc. And you have "x" amount of reps to do in "x' minutes, such as: Pull off 3 S-Dobrado to au escapes and/or attacks in one [3,4,or 5 minute] round.Against any and all comers. Go."

You should get the idea now.

 

[MJS]

You do know they drive on the same side of the road in Germany as you do lol? however on the autobahns there are no speed limits.......

LOL! Actually, no I didn't know that. See, you learn something new everyday.

 

[MJS]

that prob always going to be true.

i hate to say it, but if kenpo has a flaw, it is that Ed Parker made it so scientific, that generations of BB spend thier time thinking instead of banging.

thats why i am into kaju now instead of going back to kenpo. Kaju they have enough kenpo to make it practical, but they HIT. Just an example, nearly every kaju technique has a groin shot in it. My Sigung will make you do it again if he doesnt hear the cup "pop" when you do the technique.

no pop? do it again.

LOL! Exactly!!

 

[Twin Fist]

The only reasons that I haven't shown sparring on these capoeira videos is that the guys object to it and the power of the capoeira techs combined with our lack of protective gear during the filming makes taking the risk of being hit while doing capoeira very very unwise. A single blow can does and will break bones, render people unconscious, launch you through the air, slam you hard to the ground with takedowns tackles throws, etc. Not kidding.

translation:

its too deadly to show you

man, i havnt heard that one since the 80's witht he ninja guys refusing to show themselves sparring

whatever.

someone cant spar without hurting people their control is **** and maybe they aint that good after all.

you cant show it? it isnt real

no one , i mean NO ONE is a friggin GOD of martial arts and can do that many styles and reach that level of skill in them all....

"Our capoeira is a blend of kyokushin, judo, greco, bjj, savate, kenpo, HKD, TKD, gungfu, kali, CQB, bareknuckle boxing and kickboxing old skool Muay Thai and Muay Boran style, Testa, etc etc"

translation:

"I dont actually know much of any one thing"

they claim to do 15 things? you can bet that they are doing 15 things half assed

i am now done.

 

[ATACX GYM]

translation:

its too deadly to show you

man, i havnt heard that one since the 80's witht he ninja guys refusing to show themselves sparring

whatever.

someone cant spar without hurting people their control is **** and maybe they aint that good after all.

you cant show it? it isnt real

no one , i mean NO ONE is a friggin GOD of martial arts and can do that many styles and reach that level of skill in them all....

"Our capoeira is a blend of kyokushin, judo, greco, bjj, savate, kenpo, HKD, TKD, gungfu, kali, CQB, bareknuckle boxing and kickboxing old skool Muay Thai and Muay Boran style, Testa, etc etc"

translation:

"I dont actually know much of any one thing"

they claim to do 15 things? you can bet that they are doing 15 things half assed

i am now done.

The above is how you translate my post. I find it interesting and quite telling that you're the only one who thinks this way. We DO spar with our capoeira, we just wear protective gear. You know John...I could ask you to show us instructional vids of your variants of techs and ask you to show us video of you sparring, as I have already posted videos of me doing both and have done so for years. If I were to use your faulty logic? I could far more energetically accuse you of the very things that you falsely accuse me of...except that I have the video evidence FOR YEARS that disproves each and every one of your contentions, and you don't have literally a single second of video that makes you safe from your own barbs.

Something to think about, John.

 

[Tez3]

LOL! Actually, no I didn't know that. See, you learn something new everyday.

In Europe the Brits are the only ones who drive on the left, everyone else is the same as you...though the Italians, the Maltese and the Cypriots prefer the middle of the road regardless of the direction they are driving, makes for interesting journeys.
I know it's off topic but at least it's something I know about lol!

Posting up videos on here is always a brave thing to do but one would expect constructive criticism rather than derision. I don't see why Atacx's capoeira can't be a mixture of different styles, MMA is.

 

[ATACX GYM]

Posting up videos on here is always a brave thing to do but one would expect constructive criticism rather than derision. I don't see why Atacx's capoeira can't be a mixture of different styles, MMA is.

Not only is this well said? But it's an established fact that the original capoeira is a hybrid admixture of African martial arts and possibly has a dash of Native Brazilian arts in it too, depending upon which scholar you give credence too...

 

[Josh Oakley]

In Europe the Brits are the only ones who drive on the left, everyone else is the same as you...though the Italians, the Maltese and the Cypriots prefer the middle of the road regardless of the direction they are driving, makes for interesting journeys.
I know it's off topic but at least it's something I know about lol!

Posting up videos on here is always a brave thing to do but one would expect constructive criticism rather than derision. I don't see why Atacx's capoeira can't be a mixture of different styles, MMA is.

What's interesting is that most of us practice an art that is a mixture, or is at least influenced by, other arts. Taekwondo, Ke(n/m)po, most chinese styles, have all had contributing arts. So to deride an art for being so is hypocritical and ignorant of history. Even Kyokushin is arguably influenced by Shaolin, Aiki-jujutsu, judo, Goju Ryu, shotokan, and as some have stipulated, Taekkyeon. Mas Oyama studied under a number of different instructors: Funakoshi, Miyagi, Kimura, Kotaro, etc. Arguably, the biggest influence on kyokushin was Oyama's periods where he trained himself.

So.. what's the problem?

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

I've seen plenty of not very good MMA fighters as well, sometimes it's not the style but the fighter.

And that is very true. If those who believe in the "My style is better than your style" philosophy is ignorant, and this is my humble opinion. When I talk about Martial Arts I hardly use the word "style" because that creates divisional paradigms in the minds of Martial Artists. Different types of exercise drills and prearranged types of patterns can be classified as different styles, but style does not exist. I classify Martial Arts as sytems, schools, or disciplines because we are all human beings with two arms and two legs, if we have an individual with two heads, six arms and four legs, then we have a different style of fighting. These are the words that most of us forgotten of Bruce Lee. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick no matter what school of Martial Arts you are training in.

Always be open minded.

Hotep.

 

[ATACX GYM]

Trying to squeeze in time to put up some more capoeira videos today...when my day is already jam-packed.