Asking To Test

[PhotonGuy]

Are we talking about a Dan testing or a color belt testing? Usually there is a timeline or curriculum set in place for both but I do feel there is more variability in Dan testing's. If a person has had to start and stop for whatever reason that would explain a lot. I just recently tested and my last test was in 1995. My delays were a combination of life going in other directions and chronic injuries from an accident. I never fully stopped and did a lot behind the scenes but did not really get back into full swing until about three years ago.
I do feel asking about a color belt test is a bit of a juvenile move. They come around fairly often. If you are already a black belt hopefully you have more of a relationship with your instructor, or (and this is probably a better move)some other higher ranking students within you organization you can bounce it off of first. Their opinion would be more valuable since you have to deal with them face to face.

Im talking about testing for the color belts up to and including first Dan but not so much about testing for higher dan ranks such as 2nd dan, 3rd dan, ect.
Some schools do have a timeline or curriculum but not all. As you point out promotions for color belts do come relatively often although there are some styles where that is the exception such as BJJ where it takes an average of two years to get your next color belt. But if color belt promotions do come often than that would be an even stronger case of it taking longer than what you expect if it is taking longer than you expect.

 

[PhotonGuy]

As before, I think this will vary by instructor. Some (and it may be cultural, a hold-over from the origins of the art, or just some wonky idea the instructor has) won't appreciate any questions.

Sounds like a military instructor much like the fictional John Kreese.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I could ask any of the sifus I trained with to test anytime I wanted....fo course the response would have been..."Tested in what"
No belts, or ranks, to test for in Traditional CMA

Well since your school doesn't have tests from what you describe, "can I test?" would not be a valid question.

 

[PhotonGuy]

IMO the policy of not asking to test is more about the CI avoiding fiascos than anything else. It avoids people trying to test when they haven’t met minimum times in grade, when they’re not ready, etc. It also avoids the bickering of “I’m ready” “No you’re not.” It keeps the CI from being hounded. Basically, it keeps the inmates from running the asylum.

From a respect point of view, it keeps people from thinking and/or saying they know rank standards better than the CI.

We have a policy where we don’t ask to promote; the CI invites you to test when he feels you’re ready.

Everyone is different and one way of bringing it up isn’t going to be viewed the same way for every CI. If I strongly felt I was ready to test but wasn’t invited, I would ask my CI what I needed to do to be ready. Better yet, what do I need to work on to get better.

I wouldn't get into a "Im ready," "no you're not," argument with an instructor, if the instructor says Im not ready then Im not ready since he would know better than I would and that's what makes him the instructor and me the student. However, if he does say Im not ready I might want to ask why Im not ready and what I need to work on so I can hopefully be ready the next time around.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Every school/CI does what works for them. There’s no right or wrong way to handle this IMO. If I ran a school I’d probably have the don’t ask to promote policy, but that’s most likely how it’s always been in both organizations I’ve been in.

I would never ask to promote but that's not the same as asking to test. Asking to test is asking to try to promote, but you have to do well enough in the test in order to promote.
Asking to promote would be asking to bypass the test and just automatically promote, I would never ask to do that.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Students sometimes ask if they're ready to test. We tell them if we think they are or are not, and if not we tell them what they need to work on to get ready.

Basically that's what Im talking about, and why asking such stuff would be frowned upon, if it ever is frowned upon.
But from what I recall your school doesn't have tests, you have demonstrations.

 

[PhotonGuy]

To me it depends on how you ask. For a mock situation: It generally takes someone 6 months to go from 2nd kyu to 1st kyu. It's been 7 months and you haven't heard anything.

If you mention it seems to be taking longer, and you want to know what you're lacking so you can work on it, IMO that's perfectly fine.

If you mention it seems to be taking longer, and you feel you should test, that could sound like you are informing the teacher that you know more than him/her about when someone needs to test.

It's all in the presentation.

Im talking about asking the former.

 

[skribs]

Basically that's what Im talking about, and why asking such stuff would be frowned upon, if it ever is frowned upon.
But from what I recall your school doesn't have tests, you have demonstrations.

Even in a school which does tests solely based on invitation, you can ask "am I ready?" At our school, some of our classes have 25+ students in them, and we try to check them all, but often can't. Sometimes they'll come up to us and ask "am I ready to test?" at which point we can say "I'll check next class".

 

[PhotonGuy]

I don't get the issue with asking to test, if I'm paying to train and I want to advance I have every right to ask it. If I am testing I want to know to step up my training and if I'm not I'll want to know so I can train harder so I can next time. I've asked numerous times if I'm testing. Not because I was that bothered but simply I felt I should no. The conversation usually went like this.


"Hey am I testing this time round?"

Either

"Yeah your testing"

"Sweet cheers."

Or

"No not this time sorry."

"Okay no worries"


That's it it's a simple question with a simple answer no big deal

How about this, if your instructor says,

"No not this time sorry."

You could respond by saying,

"Alright so what do I need to work on so that hopefully I can test the next time?"

 

[JR 137]

I wouldn't get into a "Im ready," "no you're not," argument with an instructor, if the instructor says Im not ready then Im not ready since he would know better than I would and that's what makes him the instructor and me the student. However, if he does say Im not ready I might want to ask why Im not ready and what I need to work on so I can hopefully be ready the next time around.

It’s all in the delivery. Body language, tone of voice, etc. Two people can say the same thing verbatim and get quite different reactions, and deservedly so. Great example was Howard Stern read a transcript from Oprah Winfrey. Stern was fined heavily by the FCC, Winfrey wasn’t.

I would never ask to promote but that's not the same as asking to test. Asking to test is asking to try to promote, but you have to do well enough in the test in order to promote.
Asking to promote would be asking to bypass the test and just automatically promote, I would never ask to do that.

I use the two words interchangeably. I shouldn’t, but I do. I agree there’s a difference, but I wouldn’t ask for either one. I could see a vindictive teacher saying you can test against his recommendation, then making the test pretty painful and practically impossible without outright doing so.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Never ask an instructor can i test only the instructors tell ya when to test i took 3rd brown 2015 and it took me 4 years to memorized 24 technique its hard but im getting it

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I will give students the testing requirement on a piece paper during day 1. When they think they are ready, they can ask for testing anytime they want to.

 

[Headhunter]

Never ask an instructor can i test only the instructors tell ya when to test i took 3rd brown 2015 and it took me 4 years to memorized 24 technique its hard but im getting it

What nonsense I'm paying to be there so I'll ask if I'm testing because I have a right to. My grandad used to do karate and for some reason the instructor didn't want him to grade even though all the other instructors thought he was ready. So he asked the head instructor and asked if he could have a chance to show he was ready and guess what the instructor watched and agreed he was ready and apologised for not giving him a fair chance at first. People need to stop treating an instructor like a god they're human beings so I will talk to any instructor like one and if an instructors being a jerk I'll call him out on it

 

[JR 137]

What nonsense I'm paying to be there so I'll ask if I'm testing because I have a right to. My grandad used to do karate and for some reason the instructor didn't want him to grade even though all the other instructors thought he was ready. So he asked the head instructor and asked if he could have a chance to show he was ready and guess what the instructor watched and agreed he was ready and apologised for not giving him a fair chance at first. People need to stop treating an instructor like a god they're human beings so I will talk to any instructor like one and if an instructors being a jerk I'll call him out on it

Good points, but on the other side...

If a teacher says up front not to ask to test, you don’t do it. His house, his rules. If it’s a rule you don’t agree with, go elsewhere. Both teachers I’ve had had the don’t ask rule. It was told to me by both of them right up front before I joined. And there’s an article on a bulletin board at my current dojo stating not to do it and why. If that was too much for me to handle, I wouldn’t have joined. I’m not above the rules nor do I want them changed just for me.

Every dojo has their policy. Know it (along with any other important ones) before you join.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Our dojo also has a 'no ask policy' but it doesn't stop people from asking anyways . If you are ready, you will be asked to grade. If you do not know what you need to get ready, that is a more appropriate question to ask. In the end, you need to demonstrate that you have improved your technique and learned more from your last grading. If you are in the Dan ranks, you should not only continue your training but trying a hand at instructing and/or competing.

Shodan is just the beginning as they say and the path you choose to embark can have many roads but only you can set your direction. The success of your decision should be apparent in the students you train or the competitions you have won because the only way you will get better is to put in the time on the tatami. If you put in this time and energy and the results are there for everyone to see, why wouldn't you be asked to grade ? Your instructor graded you to the point you are currently at now, why wouldn't he ask you to grade again if he didn't feel you were ready for the next level ?

 

[JR 137]

Our dojo also has a 'no ask policy' but it doesn't stop people from asking anyways . If you are ready, you will be asked to grade. If you do not know what you need to get ready, that is a more appropriate question to ask. In the end, you need to demonstrate that you have improved your technique and learned more from your last grading. If you are in the Dan ranks, you should not only continue your training but trying a hand at instructing and/or competing.

Shodan is just the beginning as they say and the path you choose to embark can have many roads but only you can set your direction. The success of your decision should be apparent in the students you train or the competitions you have won because the only way you will get better is to put in the time on the tatami. If you put in this time and energy and the results are there for everyone to see, why wouldn't you be asked to grade ? Your instructor graded you to the point you are currently at now, why wouldn't he ask you to grade again if he didn't feel you were ready for the next level ?

Kyokushin has specific competition requirements for specific grades. Lower level tournaments, mid-level and upper level depending on grade.

Those requirements are typically waived for age, disability, and/or areas where there’s no reasonable access to competition.

Do you have those requirements? They’re typically not enforced or well known of in North America. Places like Japan, Europe and parts of Asia like Russia are pretty big on that rule. The rule doesn’t state you have to be successful, simply that you competed at whatever level is appropriate for that rank.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Kyokushin has specific competition requirements for specific grades. Lower level tournaments, mid-level and upper level depending on grade.

Those requirements are typically waived for age, disability, and/or areas where there’s no reasonable access to competition.

Do you have those requirements? They’re typically not enforced or well known of in North America. Places like Japan, Europe and parts of Asia like Russia are pretty big on that rule. The rule doesn’t state you have to be successful, simply that you competed at whatever level is appropriate for that rank.

It's not so much as a rule but a guideline. There are a few CI in our area that feel that one should not grade to Sandan if they haven't competed in knockdown (at any level). The reason being, how can you teach a knockdown style of karate if you haven't put your training (and wellbeing ) on the line. Success at competition doesn't necessarily mean to win a tournament. It could very well mean just to compete and survive . The Kyokushin community is very well connected so if you have competed internationally, you will most likely be known to others that have competed at that level. If you have competed at a regional level or have never competed before, that will also be known as soon as you step on the tatami to train .

 

[donald1]

Personally I don't think it's necessarily disrespectful on its own. When a student asks that question the instructor will likely respond by telling them what they are doing wrong. It becomes problematic when the student doesn't fix their mistakes yet continues to ask time and time again.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Good points, but on the other side...

If a teacher says up front not to ask to test, you don’t do it. His house, his rules. If it’s a rule you don’t agree with, go elsewhere. Both teachers I’ve had had the don’t ask rule. It was told to me by both of them right up front before I joined. And there’s an article on a bulletin board at my current dojo stating not to do it and why. If that was too much for me to handle, I wouldn’t have joined. I’m not above the rules nor do I want them changed just for me.

Every dojo has their policy. Know it (along with any other important ones) before you join.

Pretty much just this. If the rule's a problem, you're training in the wrong place, for you.

 

[skribs]

Personally I don't think it's necessarily disrespectful on its own. When a student asks that question the instructor will likely respond by telling them what they are doing wrong. It becomes problematic when the student doesn't fix their mistakes yet continues to ask time and time again.

Reminds me of working in IT.
I need an account created for my new hire.
Okay, submit Form 1234 and I'll get it done.
I'll do that.
(The next day) My new hire still doesn't have the account.
I'm sorry, I didn't see Form 1234 come in. I'll check again...yeah, I don't have it yet.
Oh, that's right. I'll get it done.
(A week later) How come my new hire still doesn't have their account?
Have you submitted Form 1234 yet?
No. Do I have to submit that form?
Yes.
Ok.

(A week later, from my boss) So-and-so says you won't create an account for her new hire and you won't tell her why.