Armed robbery for a pack of cigarettes

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by thardey, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. thardey

    thardey Master Black Belt

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    http://www.ktvl.com/news/city_1188540___article.html/white_robbery.html

    I think this is one of those instances where I would just give the robbers what they want.

    Although, with four or more people approaching me, in a crummy part of town, I would definitely be thinking thoughts of lethal force defense.

    My guess is that there's more history to this story than what the article reports. White City is a small town, these guys had probably crossed paths before.

    It's hard to believe that someone on probation would be dumb enough to pull a knife on someone for a pack of cigarettes.
     
  2. KenpoTex

    KenpoTex Senior Master

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    I fail to see what's so hard to believe...it sounds like these scumbags didn't like being told "no" and decided to take what they wanted. The guy with the knife obviously has a record so there is no reason to doubt that he will engage in criminal behavior in the future.

    Where's Paul Kersey when you need him...
     
  3. hafoc

    hafoc Yellow Belt

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    Those guys live in a world very different from ours. I once met a guy who killed someone because he took the guy's cigarettes. The knifer, mind you, was an inmate as was the "victim." I asked the knifer why he killed the "victim" over a pack of cigarettes. His reply was, "He disrespected me."
     
  4. sgtmac_46

    sgtmac_46 Senior Master

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    And that fits the prison mindset.....'respect' is life in prison!
     
  5. sgtmac_46

    sgtmac_46 Senior Master

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    I don't know......sounds like a group of thugs, one of them proving to the others how truly thuggish he is by robbing a guy of a pack of cigarettes........you have to understand how these folks think. This is a status crime to guys like that. He just upped his street cred.

    I actually don't believe the victim knew these guys......they would pick someone who they hadn't seen around that couldn't ID them.
     
  6. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    I would have to agree.
     
  7. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    I agree! I'm never amazed by the number of clowns that I see who violate their probation.

    Amen!! The Death Wish movies are definately on my list of favorites!!!:ultracool
     
  8. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

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    See, this is where I'm always split. The common sense logical thing to do is comply, and give them what they want. Especially in this case, it was only a pack of cigs. On the other hand, nothing says that they wouldn't have stabbed the guy anyways, so the other part of me says to fight back.
     
  9. Drac

    Drac Sr. Grandmaster

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  10. Drac

    Drac Sr. Grandmaster

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    Of all the phrases I have grown to hate, the "he dissed me" or " he disrespected me" tops the list..I have heard that excuse for almost every criminal / assault act that I have encountered...
     
  11. Kreth

    Kreth Grandmaster

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    Yeah... now a nice, hand-rolled robusto I might fight for... :lol:
     
  12. Jade Tigress

    Jade Tigress RAWR

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    Not even a pack of smokes. The victim was asked for a cigarette (probably one for each), when he said no, that's when he was assaulted. Can you say Stoopid?

    And the thugs...yeah, won't give us a cigarette? then we'll take them all mother****er. Can you say Stoopider? heh
     
  13. CoryKS

    CoryKS Senior Master

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    I HATE that phrase. Every time I hear some young punk say "He disrespected me", I want to shout "Of course he disrespected you, fool! You're not respectable!"

    Prolly not a good idea. But I'm thinking it.
     
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  14. Jade Tigress

    Jade Tigress RAWR

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    Right? I know.

    Very true nonetheless. They demand respect. It's like a code. I'm sorry, respect has to be earned in my book.
     
  15. MA-Caver

    MA-Caver Sr. Grandmaster

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    Very true ... all three of you. These punks do want respect that they're not giving to others, as if their status in life deserves them because they ain't like the rich who don't have to struggle (now understand their definition of "rich"... middle class, own homes in nice clean quiet neighborhoods, nice late model car, nice furnishings, good jobs/careers et al. that's "rich" to them not the Bill Gates variety), don't have to struggle like dey do to survive day to day out on dem meen streets in da hood. I's survived here so I's erned da respect dats doo too me.
    If these guys stayed in school and really paid attention during spelling classes they might get a bit more respect but not much more. :rolleyes:
    It's their mindset it's how THEY see things... screw how ya'll see it, you need to live on THEIR side of the tracks for a while before you go dissin' them or disrespectin them.

    So if they "ask" for something give it up but if you ain't got it then be nice about it and let them know. I've turned guys (in those type neighborhoods) down bumming smokes from me many a time, telling them an outright lie "ain't got none" (because they aren't in plain sight like a shirt pocket) or saying, dude I only got one or two left (when I might have 10-15 actually in the pack) and they nod and leave me alone. Guess it's HOW you turn them down. However; I do go by instinct and if the hairs on my neck are up then I'll give it to them like it's no problem and a privaledge to help them out.
    I may be dumb but I ain't stoopid.

    Maybe I've been lucky or blessed or whatever, or maybe I have enough streets in me to let them know I know "what time it is" and I ain't one to mess with. I dunno. Don't wanna know. But staying calm, rational and (yes ironically) respectful will get you out of that "killing zone" of theirs when they approach you.
    As with all predators... they can smell fear.
     
  16. thardey

    thardey Master Black Belt

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    What's so surprising about this is that it's an old Logging mill town. It's so small that it doesn't actually qualify as a town. It has no police, no post office, no high school, etc. "White City" is a misnomer. It's also not a suburb, either. But it is a self-contained community. This isn't the gang part of town. That's on the other side of the valley.

    This is more of the "You might be a redneck if . . ." part of town. Cars on blocks, trailer houses everywhere, meth labs on every other block.

    It's just not the part of town where you get mugged.

    And he did ID them right away -- that's why I think they knew him, that, and the rediculously small size of the community. Everybody knows everybody.
     
  17. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith Master of Arts

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    "Isidro Banuelos Rodriguez was arrested on first-degree robbery charges, probation violation and being a felon in possession of a weapon."

    Yea he had a record. And why in the dickens was he out of jail? Well this time, they can hold him till trial as he was on probation and was an ex-felon in posession.

    And yes, many times low class thugs will do violence and robberies on the spur of the moment. I'm quite sure these guys just decided to take the cigarette cause they were told 'no'. Didn't even think of the consequences if the cops came.

    And also guys, when four people start to walk up to you late at night, people you don't know, and demand something or try to stike up a conversation, I sure hope you are packing heat, create some distance, and talk to them in a command voice to go away. All the time blading your body so you can draw your weapon if need be.

    And keep an eye out for one of them to start walking around you to blind side you while you are talking to the others.

    Deaf
     
  18. thardey

    thardey Master Black Belt

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    I guess it's a good reminder to me . . . I usually think of defending myself from fairly rational people. I don't expect them to follow the same rules that I do, but you'd think there'd be some sort of "risk vs. reward" analysis. Apparently I can't take that for granted, either.
     
  19. KenpoTex

    KenpoTex Senior Master

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    I don't think you can necessarily discount that in this case. Look at it from their perspective, you have the reward (the smokes), what is the risk? Three guys, one of whom is armed, against a lone individual...probably not much risk from their perspective.
    There's also the chance that this could have been more of a hierarchical thing where they felt the need to impose their will because he refused their demand (the whole "respect" thing).
     
  20. sgtmac_46

    sgtmac_46 Senior Master

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    With some in the criminal class simply committing these kinds of acts is reward alone.....they get Bravado points for the audaciousness of robbing someone for something so insignificant......it improves their reputation as one willing to use violence and the threat of violence to get what he wants.123
     

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