Arm Wrap

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When your opponent punches at you, you wrap his arm (or arms), pull him in, obtain a clinch, and ... You can convert a striking game into a grappling game after that.

    What's your opinion on this strategy?




     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
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  2. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I am not fond of giving up my striking arm to lock up another person's arm. If I can do it without losing my ability to strike with the arm I wrap with, then terrific. There are many techniques which permit this.

    I don't really know how to grapple, so I'd avoid that.
     
  3. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

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    An overhook will give you a pretty good advantage for striking the way bas is doing it. In The second video the guy has a decent idea, but the way he is doing it he is risking his back.
     
  4. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    How? Could you give more detail on this?
     
  5. kuniggety

    kuniggety 2nd Black Belt

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    You're risking it every time you intentionally take the overhook and give them the undertook. There's lots of counters the receiving guy can do and that's even if the overhooking guy successfully pulls him down into the half headlock clinch hold he has. One good shrug of the left shoulder while retracting the head can easily allow the guy to take his back.
     
  6. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Grandmaster

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    The way he grabs the head... All the guy has to do is duck, or after the twist pull his head out. He's got terrible control.
     
  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    You can use the under hook to counter the over hook. A can be used to counter B, and B can be used to counter A. This is quite common in MA. But since the person who uses over hook is coming from the top. he has weight and gravity advantage.

    In order to prevent your opponent from taking your back, all you need to do is to step in your right leg on the left side of his left leg. This way you can jam your opponent's moving path so he can't get your back. Here is an example.



    You can circle your head under the head locking arm. But it will give your opponent a chance to apply "reverse head lock" on you at the same time. Too many possibilities can happen here. It depends on your grappling skill vs. your opponent's grappling skill.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    The arm wrap technique in the first video is crap. The palm strike is also horrible. If you are going to pull your arm that far back then you might as well just make a fist and punch instead of doing a palm strike.
    I don't like the 2nd video either. The punch wasn't realistic. By holding both hands together he's no longer able to attack and defend at the same time. One of the worst 1-2 combinations ever on part of the attacker.
     
  9. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    If it's not done the way I do it, it sucks.
     
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  10. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    My personal opinion is that in the first video, the arm bar isn't used to advantage, therefore the opponent isn't controlled. I don't see any real pressure placed on the elbow or shoulder, only a trap of the right arm. Stepping backward with the right foot would put pressure where it should be. That will also cause the opponent to turn his body counter clockwise, preventing him from using his left arm for blocking or striking. One can then still follow up with something else, such as a strike or a take-down. I don't mind a palm strike, the opponent isn't quite being struck from under the chin. A palm strike doesn't need the accuracy of a knuckle strike, but coming up from underneath can potentially put tremendous torque (Edit: well I guess it would better be described simply as force) on the cervical backbone, to the possible point of breaking vertebrae.

    The problem I have with the second video is again, the trapped arm isn't well trapped. And once you have the opponent in a headlock, what do you do next? There are effective counters to a head lock. What is the follow up?

    Any who disagree, I would like to hear other opinions. It's how we all learn.
     
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  11. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    This is what I saw as well.
     
  12. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    In the 2nd clip, He has 3 point control on his opponent's right arm:

    1. left hand hold on the elbow,
    2. left armpit control the wrist,
    3. right hand control the upper arm.

    You just can't get any better control on your opponent's arm than this. To have a good leading arm control is a MUST for any head lock to work. This will take most of your opponent's counters away.

    [​IMG]

    In the following picture, it's a bad head lock because he did not have a full control on his opponent's leading arm.

    [​IMG]

    If you can use your head lock to bend your opponent's spine side way (this is the other MUST for applying head lock), to take him down will take very little effort after that.

     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016
  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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  14. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    In that clip, the reason that his opponent can lift him up because he lets his opponent to have

    1. left arm to wrap around his waist - to crack on his opponent's left elbow joint can solve this problem.
    2. strong base - to spring his opponent's left leg back into a bow-arrow stance can solve this problem,
    3. vertical spine - to bend his opponent's spine side way can solve this problem,
    4. ...
     
  15. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I have no idea what you are describing. Not sure how you are going to crack on the left arm when the left arm is behind the person trying to do the headlock.
    I don't see how the "spring his opponents left leg back into a bow-arrow stance would work
    The guy that is showing the technique is said to be a Collegiate All-American, and 2x NAGA World Champion. So I can only assume that he knows what he's talking about.
     
  16. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When you apply head lock on your opponent, if you feel that your opponent's free left arm tries to wrap around your waist, and if you still have not taken him down yet, you may already miss that taking down window. When that happen, you should release your right head lock, change it into an over hook, put the back of your palm on your opponent's chest, extend your right arm, step in your left leg into a bow-arrow stance, and put pressure on his left elbow joint. This will force your opponent's body to move forward. The head lock and over hook should be able to chance back and force freely depending on the need. I can't find any application clip but here is a training clip for "cracking".



    In order for your opponent to

    - pick you up, he needs to have a base (such as a horse stance).
    - drag you back down, he needs to move one of his legs forward to shift his center of gravity behind his base (so he can drag).

    If you can "spring" one of his legs back and force him to be in bow-arrow stance, he can't pick you up or drag you back down. The moment that you "spring" your opponent's left leg back, the moment you attack his right leg and take him down right at that moment. Here is a clip for "spring".

     
  17. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I wasn't able to see the second video. It was listed as Private.
     
  18. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    It should work now.

    I find one clip for "cracking (over hook)". The "cracking" is used in wrestling as a "door opening" move. It can open many opportunities for you.

     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016
  19. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    That is the smallest dog I've ever seen.

    You would have to be really quick to take that leg out like that. As soon as you are lifted from your root you won't be able to use that technique. You should try to see if you can get that to work with some resistance and movement.
     
  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If your "head lock" is not strong enough to "bend your opponent's spine side way (this will take most of your opponent's counters away)", you should not use 'head lock" at all. In order to develop a strong "head lock", it takes a long time.

    When your opponent uses waist wrap and lift you up, you may still be able to

    - twist your right leg on his left leg,
    - glue your body on his body,
    - extend your left leg out,
    - move your center of gravity away from your opponent's body as far as you can,
    - make him feel very heavy to lift you up.

    But in general, it will not be toward your advantage.



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