Are competitive Sport Martial Artists superior?

[Steve]

No hold barred challenge matches is not sport martial arts. There were originally two branches of the Gracies that went into different directions, one sport, the other self defense and challenge matches only.

LOL. Okay. So, then the challenge matches were spontaneous and to the death? Once again, just to be clear, I think you have in mind a very limited definition of competition. I disagree with your definition. I mean, clearly, there are rules even in a no holds barred competition.

Even Mitsuyo Maeda was a competitor who came into Brazil after travelling around taking on all comers as a representative of Kano Jujutsu. As I said before, competition is intrinsic to the style. It's baked in and always has been.

 

[Acronym]

LOL. Okay. So, then the challenge matches were spontaneous and to the death? .

So if I don't kill people in a street fights I have by definition engaged in sports?

 

[Acronym]

Even Mitsuyo Maeda was a competitor who came into Brazil after travelling around taking on all comers as a representative of Kano Jujutsu. As I said before, competition is intrinsic to the style. It's baked in and always has been.

Maeda was not a Gracie. He taught the Gracies Jiujitsu which they later modified into their own style.

 

[Steve]

So if I don't kill people in a street fights I have by definition engaged in sports?

I mean, killing people certainly isn't sport, if that's what you're implying. Your post is so ridiculous, I can't really tell if you're kidding or not. But seriously, if you and I get together at a pre-arranged place and time, and participate in some physical activity with mutually agreed upon rules... yeah, that would be sport. Certainly, that would be competition.

 

[Steve]

Maeda was not a Gracie. He taught the Gracies Jiujitsu which they later modified into their own style.

Maeda isn't a Gracie? I had no idea.

 

[Acronym]

I mean, killing people certainly isn't sport, if that's what you're implying. Your post is so ridiculous, I can't really tell if you're kidding or not. But seriously, if you and I get together at a pre-arranged place and time, and participate in some physical activity with mutually agreed upon rules... yeah, that would be sport. Certainly, that would be competition.

So their dojo fights and beach altercations were sacrioned by an organization? If it's not sactioned by an international body then it's not a sport.

 

[Hanzou]

So their dojo fights and beach altercations were sacrioned by an organization? If it's not sactioned by an international body then it's not a sport.

Helio Gracie's fight with Kimura was a sanctioned event. As was the NHB Vale Tudo matches where Gracie JJ got its rep as a fighting art.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

So their dojo fights and beach altercations were sacrioned by an organization? If it's not sactioned by an international body then it's not a sport.

That's a real stretch.

Here's the definition of sport: an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

As an example: Me playing hockey with friends, we'd play full games following standard rules and everything, in an abandoned parking lot in our neighborhood. If that's not sport, what would you call it? It fits the above definition.

A second example, if you don't consider the above one sports.: Intramural sports are a thing. They've got sports in the name. If I'm part of a local soccer league, is that a sport, even though it's not sactioned by an international body?

If you still don't consider that a sport: What about the NCAA or NFL? Those are only national, do the football games played within their organizations count as sports?

 

[Acronym]

Helio Gracie's fight with Kimura was a sanctioned event. As was the NHB Vale Tudo matches where Gracie JJ got its rep as a fighting art.

They did not get their reptuation from vale tudo competitons. Dojo fights were going on all the time between rivalling schools.

 

[Hanzou]

I would say quite the contrary that sport martial arts has erroded BJJ but not the striking arts.

There are too many strategies in sport BJJ that do no work in MMA and self defense, that have become a mainstay

Really? Which sport BJJ strategies would you say don't work in MMA?

 

[Hanzou]

They did not get their reptuation from vale tudo competitons. Dojo fights were going on all the time between rivalling schools.

Uh yeah they did. Sure there were dojo fights throughout Brazil, but it was the televised NHB matches with other arts where they got their fame.

 

[Acronym]

Uh yeah they did. Sure there were dojo fights throughout Brazil, but it was the televised NHB matches with other arts where they got their fame.

Who cares what made them famous? The crucial element is lost in 99% of todays schools and that's defense to strikes in a guard, because the sport won't allow it. So what happened is that a lot of modern day students tried out MMA and lost to ground and pound

 

[Hanzou]

Who cares what made them famous? The crucial element is lost in 99% of todays schools and that's defense to strikes in a guard, because the sport won't allow it. So what happened is that a lot of modern day students tried out MMA and lost to ground and pound

You mean like Angela Lee, Garry Tonon, Ryan Hall, and McKenzie Dern? They appear to be handling themselves quite well. Even Kron did pretty good considering all he was doing was Guard Pulls.

 

[Acronym]

You mean like Angela Lee, Garry Tonon, Ryan Hall, and McKenzie Dern? They appear to be handling themselves quite well. Even Kron did pretty good considering all he was doing was Guard Pulls.

Kron did awful. He never beat anyone good.

 

[Steve]

So their dojo fights and beach altercations were sacrioned by an organization? If it's not sactioned by an international body then it's not a sport.

Okay. So, it's not competition if it's not sanctioned by some international governing body? Come on. That's silly.

Let's consider this. When you play a round of golf with your friends, is that sport? Is it a sanctioned event? When kids play basketball at recess, is that sport? Is it sanctioned? Are these things competition? I would say that these things are not sanctioned in the way you seem to use the term. But I would certainly consider both to be examples of sport and of competition.

What about regional or local sports that may have regional or local governing organizations, but are not international?

The word "sport" has a lot of different definitions. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest that a defining characteristic of sport is that there must be an international sanctioning body. I really don't think you've thought this through very well.

 

[Acronym]

Okay. So, it's not competition if it's not sanctioned by some international governing body? Come on. That's silly.

Let's consider this. When you play a round of golf with your friends, is that sport? Is it a sanctioned event? When kids play basketball at recess, is that sport? Is it sanctioned? Are these things competition? I would say that these things are not sanctioned in the way you seem to use the term. But I would certainly consider both to be examples of sport and of competition.

What about regional or local sports that may have regional or local governing organizations, but are not international?

The word "sport" has a lot of different definitions. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest that a defining characteristic of sport is that there must be an international sanctioning body. I really don't think you've thought this through very well.

For a global martial arts sport, it would be an international body included. Stop giving analogies to things that are not martial arts in a thread about martial arts.

If you fight NHB where anything but killing each other is prohibited, then you are engaging in organized fighting, not sport. The sole purpose is beating your opponent, not entertaining the crowd.

 

[Steve]

Kron did awful. He never beat anyone good.

I mean, he's 5-1 as a professional. Anyone fighting on a professional MMA card, even at the local level, is going to be more skilled than most. I'm guessing he'd handle anyone on this forum relatively easily.

 

[Steve]

For a global martial arts sport, it would be an international body included. Stop giving analogies to things that are not martial arts in a thread about martial arts.

If you fight NHB where anything but killing each other is prohibited, then you are engaging in organized fighting, not sport. The sole purpose is beating your opponent, not entertaining the crowd.

I think you're entire position is absurd. This thread is about "competitive sport martial artists". So, it's about sport. It's also about competition. And it's about martial artists who are also those two things.

The disconnect here is in your last statement. I think if you are engaging in organized fighting, you are by definition engaging in competitive sport. The former being a subset of the latter. All poodles are dogs, though not all dogs are poodles.

 

[Acronym]

I mean, he's 5-1 as a professional. Anyone fighting on a professional MMA card, even at the local level, is going to be more skilled than most. I'm guessing he'd handle anyone on this forum relatively easily.

BJJ is the worst base to have in MMA right now. That is just a fact

 

[Steve]

BJJ is the worst base to have in MMA right now. That is just a fact

Well, that's actually an opinion. It's also not the subject of this thread. The topic of the thread is whether competitive sport martial artists are superior to non-competitive, non-sport martial artists.

I have to say, you're cracking me up this morning. Thank you. With everything going on, I needed the laugh.