Anyone recognize this?

[KPM]

Seriously, did anyone ever thought about quitting WC/VT completly just because of all this bickering.....

I thought Indonesian practitioners were bad.......

Its just a handful of Wing Chun people really. And for some reason the worst ones seem to come from WSLVT lineage. I honestly think WSL himself would be turning in his grave if he knew how some of his current followers were representing his lineage.

 

[Dylan9d]

Its just a handful of Wing Chun people really. And for some reason the worst ones seem to come from WSLVT lineage. I honestly think WSL himself would be turning in his grave if he knew how some of his current followers were representing his lineage.

Well I must admit that most WSLVT people I encountered so far think they are superior creatures, whilst I had my share of sparring with WC/VT folk. People that claimed they were really high up there and not a single one impressed me that much.

Now JKD folk are in my opinion very different, more open attitudes and willing to share and learn from others.....

Anyways, was just curious that this bickering and stuff would turn you off from WC

 

[LFJ]

Interesting that NI didn't seem to have the slightest problem understanding what I had to say there.

You were/are just being dishonest about my position.

Another load of BS from the BS king!!!!

See:

OK, that makes much more sense from my perspective. I can better see where you are coming from now.

FWIW, the discussion between LFJ & I was quite fruitful. We came to agree on some points & disagree on others, all devoid of vitriol, largely because politics was left out of it.

Yet, at the end of that thread you, KPM, were still "confused" on my basic position and the summary of it you gave that was in fact the exact opposite of everything I said was your honest understanding?

The thread was over 30 pages long. I don't believe you are that slow. You are a grudge holder and use dishonest tactics to appear to win arguments only you are interested in winning.

 

[LFJ]

So just what exactly were you comparing my posts and my videos to and basing your comments upon LFJ???

Who said I was comparing anything?

I was talking about benefit and sensibleness.

 

[DanT]

I'm lucky, I learned TWC first, so I have much respect for what they do. My Sifu learned from Chu Shon Tin , Wong Shun Leung, and from Sunny Tang who is a student of Moy Yat. I guess I'm in a unique position because my Wing Chun is influenced by all these people. I have a goal of one day studying a non yip man lineage. Honestly the differences between the lineages are minimal, some prefer a 50-50 stance, others a 60-40 and others a 70-30, some do big heun saos and some do small, some drag their feet some pick them up, it's not a big deal. What I've learned is that no body has the secret anything, you just have to get good at what you do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm lucky, I learned TWC first, so I have much respect for what they do. My Sifu learned from Chu Shon Tin , Wong Shun Leung, and from Sunny Tang who is a student of Moy Yat. I guess I'm in a unique position because my Wing Chun is influenced by all these people. I have a goal of one day studying a non yip man lineage. Honestly the differences between the lineages are minimal, some prefer a 50-50 stance, others a 60-40 and others a 70-30, some do big heun saos and some do small, some drag their feet some pick them up, it's not a big deal. What I've learned is that no body has the secret anything, you just have to get good at what you do.

I think that synopsis would apply to almost any art's branches. If it gets much more different than that, it's probably not the same art anymore. If someone calls it the same art and claims to have some secret sauce not found elsewhere in the art, I'm very skeptical. I've almost never found them to be correct, and some were being knowingly deceitful. Others were actually working off a limited understanding of the art, thinking they'd found something new, when they'd actually just found a way to work around a gap in their understanding of something fundamental.

 

[KPM]

See:




Yet, at the end of that thread you, KPM, were still "confused" on my basic position and the summary of it you gave that was in fact the exact opposite of everything I said was your honest understanding?

The thread was over 30 pages long. I don't believe you are that slow. You are a grudge holder and use dishonest tactics to appear to win arguments only you are interested in winning.

More complete and total BS. Nobody Important was agreeing with you at a certain stage of the discussion in generalities. The particulars of your theory were never made clear. I doubt very seriously that NI could give a description of your theory in any detail that you would agree with. If he cares to try and is successful, then I will certainly apologize!

And I will point out that you declined to actually restate your theory in any detail to clarify what you think, even after coming back to that discussion with a time lapse of a month when memories would have faded.

 

[KPM]

Who said I was comparing anything?

I was talking about benefit and sensibleness.

You are so tedious and frustrating to have any kind of discussion with! Here is what YOU wrote before WSLVT was ever mentioned!

The problem though, is that the pattern is not one meant to be done with knives.

Most of the actions and underlying concepts are incompatible. Unless you don't know the concepts or disregard them, then you can treat it like just a dance routine and it doesn't matter that you're waving knives around.

You will have to change a lot about the form for it to make sense with knives, but why do that when there is already a perfectly good form specifically for the knives?

Extracurricular training is of course to be done, but you don't need another set pattern apart from the BJD form. Set patterns are the least important part of knife training, especially if the pattern is incompatible with the weapon.

If you want to do solo air training with the knives apart from the BJD form, it is more sensible and beneficial to do random "shadow slashing", working actual BJD footwork and actions in free combination with random directional changes, etc..

Doing CK with the knives is completely unnecessary and like I said, the squarest peg in the roundest hole. Useless at best, dangerous at worst.



So just WHAT were you comparing to if not your own WSLVT??? You don't know TWC!!!! What "pattern" were you talking about as not being meant to be done with knives other than WSLVT??? What actions and underlying concepts were you talking about as being incompatible other than those of WSLVT??? Because you don't know TWC, so how would you be able to say??? Your role in this discussion has gone from bad to worse. You'd better stop now because that hole you have been digging is deeper and deeper and you have no credibility!

 

[LFJ]

Here is what YOU wrote before WSLVT was ever mentioned!

None of that mentioned WSLVT either.

So just WHAT were you comparing to if not your own WSLVT???

None of that was a comparison.

What "pattern" were you talking about as not being meant to be done with knives other than WSLVT???[/quote What actions and underlying concepts were you talking about as being incompatible other than those of WSLVT??? Because you don't know TWC, so how would you be able to say???

As I said, look at the two videos, or since it's you, just be honest about what you're doing.

The actions are not unaltered between the empty-hand and knife versions.

Indeed, a lot had to be changed for it to work with knives, which means incompatible concepts are being changed out.

The only thing that remains is a rough and meaningless pattern.

Pointless.

 

[LFJ]

And I will point out that you declined to actually restate your theory in any detail to clarify what you think, even after coming back to that discussion with a time lapse of a month when memories would have faded.

You made your dishonest summary while the discussion was still fresh. Not a month after.

I will point out that I declined to take that particular topic back up with a clearly dishonest discussion partner.

The theory is in the thread, clearly stated numerous times, for anyone to reread.

 

[Nobody Important]

If you all hurry, you can make it to the Mad Hatter's in time for tea.

 

[geezer]

"You, like most WCers, always like to say your system is concept- rather than technique-based."--LFJ

...You seem to say that WSLVT is concept-based in its strategies, and then just ignores the concepts behind the techniques used. But I doubt that is really true. Some "JKD Concepts" guys would come the closest to being truly "concept-based" system in that the strategies and tactics of the system guide what they do and the techniques they use are somewhat irrelevant. So sometimes they are using Wing Chun, sometimes FMA, sometimes kickboxing, etc.

This is equally true of the Direct Torres Escrima or "DTE " I have trained. The group includes people from a wide variety of backgrounds and after covering basics puts emphasis on concept and strategy rather than technique. Core concepts include:

1. "Getting an Angle" i.e. establishing an advantageous position relative to your opponent.
2. Forward Intent
3. Diamondpoint Response i.e. maximum efficiency or pinpoint transition from movement to movement (this includes simultaneous defense and attack whenever possible).

However, as we all have different background, different physiques, and different abilities, when confronted with a specific attack we typically use different techniques to respond. Coach Martin or Coach Jeff will critique what we do not on the basis of technique but rather on effectiveness and whether our techniques apply the concepts. This is a truly conceptual martial art.

...And yes, it has done a lot to improve my VT --even though my DTE coaches have far less WC/VT training than I have!

 

[KPM]

If you all hurry, you can make it to the Mad Hatter's in time for tea.

Geez! Can you believe that guy! I try to stay as far away from the Mad Hatter as possible! But he seems to reel me in every time!

But honest question.....can you restate LFJ's theory on the origin of his Wing Chun in any detail as he claims???

 

[Nobody Important]

Geez! Can you believe that guy! I try to stay as far away from the Mad Hatter as possible! But he seems to reel me in every time!

But honest question.....can you restate LFJ's theory on the origin of his Wing Chun in any detail as he claims???

Yes, I can. The real question though is, am I willing to join everyone in the rabbit hole? Let me think about it.

 

[geezer]

Yes, I can. The real question though is, am I willing to join everyone in the rabbit hole? Let me think about it.

Better to keep your distance, stay non-partisan and just call 'em like you see 'em. KPM is a great guy, but he always takes the bait, hook, line and sinker. LFJ and, especially Guy (remember him?) just loved to yank his chain.

 

[KPM]

Better to keep your distance, stay non-partisan and just call 'em like you see 'em. KPM is a great guy, but he always takes the bait, hook, line and sinker. LFJ and, especially Guy (remember him?) just loved to yank his chain.

Yeah, gotta admit that's true. I need to work on my resistance skills for sure!

 

[wckf92]

Yeah, gotta admit that's true. I need to work on my resistance skills for sure!

 

[Nobody Important]

View attachment 20427

Lol! You're such a nerd.

 

[KPM]

Would a hearty "Fxck off!" work or would that get me banned?

 

[Nobody Important]

Would a hearty "Fxck off!" work or would that get me banned?

Holy moly, sounds like someone could use a hug. I'd volunteer but I'm more the type to use your tears as lubricant.

Besides, sounds like you might try to bite. Any other volunteers?