Another discussion about the reason that you start a thread

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Dec 24, 2019.

  1. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,205
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    If you can't think of a similar, but more appropriate word to use, I think that just highlights @kempodisciple 's point.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,593
    Likes Received:
    943
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    i can think of a very appropriate word, but it seems to breach forum guidelines,
     
  3. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,205
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    Then you don't know what I meant by "appropriate", which further's @kempodisciple 's theory.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,593
    Likes Received:
    943
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    ??? appropriate word ?? a word that adequately describes the object or person to which your applying it ?

    your confusing your definitions again ant you ?
     
  5. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,205
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    Appropriate, as in suitable or proper to the circumstances. In this case, "appropriate" meaning something you can say that won't get you banned.

    But you gave one definition, which was contextually wrong, which is what @kempodisciple is getting at.
     
  6. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,593
    Likes Received:
    943
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    but you seem not to understand the definition of '' circumstance''
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    22,549
    Likes Received:
    6,620
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Except sometimes the logic is debatable. For instance, lets' look at your second statement. Force against force is actually A+B in some situations (I'm trying to punch, and you block my arm hard, or I charge in and you use an entering frame block to stop me in my tracks).

    Of course, neither of those are the point you were trying to make in your example, but the simple A/B presentation leaves some room for debate.
     
  8. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,205
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    Is your goal here just to pick every 3 or 4 syllable word and tell me "you don't know what it means" until I just give up trying to talk to you?
     
  9. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    3,661
    Likes Received:
    1,128
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Southeast U.S.
    Oh jobo, cannot you not see that you are arguing against yourself?

    You said: "if your doing ( extended)aerobics and your heart starts beating like a drum, thats not because your working your heart its because you've run out of oxygen"

    You said: "cardio on the other hand is blasting your heart up to close to max for a short period of time, if your breathing gets highly elevated it shows you heart isn't what it should be as its not pumping the required the blood and the oxygen it carries"

    There is a notable "chicken or the egg" situation here.

    BOTH exercises require blood to be adequately carried which in turn carries oxygen to the body; assuming there is adequate oxygen there.

    Frankly, I wish it was this simple. There are many other things as play here, such as lung capacity, vascular health, and muscle makeup. Then you get into the endless list of things like BMI, genetics, mentality, on and on.

    To me, the answer is, if a person has the time and 'want to' to exercise 10 hours/week, AND it is quality time spent (not just conversing as the gym) they should do it. It certainly lends itself to being a lifestyle and not just a New Years resolution that is going to last for a couple of months.
    If time is at a premium, the a person has to figure out how/what exercise they can fit in to their schedule. Part of the problem with this scenario is that Most people cannot jump right into the exercise regimen you describe.
    It takes a little time but a committed person will figure what they need to work on the most; strength, cardio, flexibility, etc... Then they can figure out what best to do with the time they have available.

    And Yes, the terms cardio and aerobics are interchangeable in terms of exercise.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    22,549
    Likes Received:
    6,620
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Where's the research that there's no benefit in cardio training beyond 5 min?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    22,549
    Likes Received:
    6,620
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    You're now changing context, so you can use the definition you prefer. Which you do kind of a lot.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    22,549
    Likes Received:
    6,620
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    And when folks use that term for exercise, they're usually including the pulmonary system (sometimes "cardio" is short for "cardiopulmonary").
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    3,544
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Without doubt, the single most pointless 'measure' of health and condition ever devised in the entire history of humankind.

    The only possible use of it is to put a number onto a disgustingly fat person to illustrate that they're fat no matter how much they deny it by saying crap like "I'm just big boned". Basically, it's a politically correct way of calling someone medically fat.

    I know plenty of people with a 'healthy' BMI who can't make it up a flight of stairs without a smoke break halfway.

    Conversely, I know of a good few cyclists who are classified by BMI as 'underweight', and more than a couple of professional rugby players who are 'obese'.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    896
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Oh if we were having a argument about cardio earlier, i have seen a military fitness guide use breathing as a means to measure intensity. ie if you can speak normally while doing and after the exercise its low intesnsity, if you struggle its medium, if you cant because you keep panting its high intensity.

    I dont think its related as much, but its intresting. And they laid it out as you do X amount of X intensity runs a week, so it scales with your ability. (i think it was specfically just for runs)
     
  15. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,205
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    I can't find it at the moment, but there was an article on The Duffel Blog (the military version of The Onion) which was about a Marine who set the bench press world record getting dishonorably discharged for fitness failure because he couldn't run a mile in under 8 minutes, and his leadership was horribly embarrassed by his laziness.

    BMI is a tool. Like any tool, if it used for more than what it was designed for, it will fail to live up to those standards. For example, in MMORPGs, a lot of players will use a damage meter to see how much damage they're doing, and will assume that if they do the most damage it means they contributed the most to the success of the run. But if they're not damaging the right enemies at the right time, or if they're taking unnecessary damage themselves by standing in the proverbial or literal fire, then they are actually hurting the chance of success as a whole. The meter itself is a useful tool for a lot of reasons, but if you try to make it the end-all be-all of success, the tool fails.

    The same could be said of BMI. It's a useful tool at measuring what it measures, but if it's used in isolation of other tools or in isolation of context, it fails.
     
  16. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    3,544
    Likes Received:
    1,028
    Trophy Points:
    263
    The fact that BMI relies so heavily on other measures to have anything approaching relevance means that it's a pointless addition.

    As a tool it's really not very useful at all because without the reliance on other factors what it measures means effectively nothing. The fact that you can have a bad BMI made good by your real condition (short, muscly and fit), and vice versa (good BMI made bad because you're 90% blubber but quite tall) absolutely negates it.

    The current fascination with concentration on BMI is actually a bad situation and the medical community using so heavily is something I utterly disagree with.

    It's like me having a tape measure, but one that can only measure pine and only if the humidity is within a certain range - if I use it for a different wood, or metal, or it's a bit rainy then the measurement will be wrong.

    Far more useful is body fat percentage. You can use that perfectly in isolation with no contextual adaptations. It's measurable and useful.




    Edit to add: even proportional measurements would be more relevant than BMI - if your waist exceeds your chest then it's highly likely your overall condition isn't brilliant - your height can be integrated into this too, being wider than you are tall isn't a good place to be.
     
  17. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    9,700
    Likes Received:
    6,173
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    It might be important if you're doing anything for six minutes. :happy:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4,205
    Likes Received:
    1,019
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Lakewood, WA
    But MMA rounds are 5 minutes. Why would you do anything for 6?123
     
    • Funny Funny x 1

Share This Page