Another discussion about the reason that you start a thread

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Dec 24, 2019.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Case 1:

    A: This is … Your thought?
    B: My opinion is ...
    C: My opinion is ...

    Case 2:

    A: This is ...
    B: My opinion is ...
    A: I didn't ask your opinion. ...

    - Case 1 is the normal discussion thread that all opinions are welcome.
    - Case 2 is not an open discussion thread. Should people even respond to this kind of thread?

    What's your opinion on this?
     
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  2. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I think most people tend to believe their opinions are facts. So when someone states an opinion that is different from theirs, it tends to taken as an attack against my facts.

    For example, let's say that I say that Jeff Foxworthy is a better comedian than Ron White. This is an opinion. I could make arguments to support it, "I believe Foxworthy is better because he can be funny with clean jokes, and because of his career involving sketch and mentoring other comedians." But if Ron White makes you laugh more than Foxworthy does, I'm not going to convince you of it.

    Now let's say someone holds the opinion that Ron White is a better comedian. They're going to see my opinion as an insult and react accordingly. It's an insult because I'm saying they're wrong, even if I'm not thinking about them when I say Jeff is better. And their reaction is usually to try and attack me personally instead of attack my argument, because if you can't trust me (for whatever reason) you can't trust my argument.

    Your situation is someone who posts from that second perspective. They're posting opinions as facts, and searching for validation.
     
  3. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I have no idea who either of those people are or even whether you've actually just made up the names as an example...

    But that's not important.

    What is important is which one would win in a fight?
     
  4. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    At their age? The doctors and insurance companies. And probably AFV.
     
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  5. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Hopefully Case 1 makes an argument for itself to everyone.
    Am I being too Pollyanna?
     
  6. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    People grow. It's not always easy to be corrected and then accept it. Much of this probably has to do with where one believes themselves to already be. I'll use myself as an example: For the most part, I still consider myself as beginner -intermediate skilled martial artist. I know a lot about some specific things, but not a lot about everything. I accept this reality which makes it easier for me to listen to what other's say without getting upset. Most of the times when I go off on someone, it's not because of what I know, but it's often because of the frustration of someone not understanding what I'm trying to communicate. Sometimes, I just communicate it in a bad way (Gpseymour stated. How it sounds in my head is not how everyone else is picking up). Other times I know it's not me because after a few months someone will say the same way, and everyone will be like. Yeah. that's right, That's how it works. lol. Such is life. I can deal with those flaws as I can't help who I am.

    But when it comes to things like knowledge of stuff, I try not to stand too tall. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. So I try to rise too far beyond my knowledge. For the most part, I rise to 95% of my knowledge and the other 5% is where I'll be wrong about something I thought I understood. This doesn't include "repeating what I've been told or taught." And this is only for martial arts. In other fields I'll be quick rise above my knowledge lol.

    But anyway. I think it's just part of person growth being able to absorb opinion especially in Martial Talk where things can be harsh, more than what we realize because we are always going at each other. I'm pretty sure that some of our discussion and debates look like we hate each other's guts.

    For CASE 2.
    The first thing I would consider is who is the person. Each case is different. Is the person new posting for the first time. Or is it Jobo or Martial D. If it's those 2 jokers then jut comment. They will be ok, they like debating. If it's me. It's going to suck for me because I don't like debating. Somewhere in my schooling I did debating in a formal education setting, but not in a debate class, but it was being taught. I was told that the purpose of debating is not who is right or wrong but who has the better argument. When to me is stupid as it doesn't help me get to an answer. So since then I don't like it. But I understand that sometimes people tell me good information even if it's packaged in crap lol. just kidding. In other words. Sometimes I don't like what is told to me, but I always try to keep an open mind about stuff, even when I think I'm right.

    Each person is different so for Case 2
    I would probably care less about should I respond, and more about what can I respond to and how can I respond in a way that makes it easier for the person to be less defensive about "I didn't ask your opinion".

    In my own experience, I've found that showing my opinion goes over a little easier than me telling my opinion to someone who may not be as opened. Which is probably why I do so many videos.

    Still looking forward to Kicking Tony in his shins.
     
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  7. zzj

    zzj Blue Belt

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    Case 3

    A: OMG/LOL have a look at this....
    B: ok
    C: .....
     
  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Case 2:

    A: This is ...
    B: Good job, excellent, keep up the good work.
    C: Why didn't you give A your honest opinion?
    B: A didn't ask.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  9. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    This is something I've seen on the TKD reddit a lot. Someone will post a video asking for advice on a kick, and you get:

    A: Looks good, might want to work on your balance.
    B: Your balance sucks.
     
  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Case 2:

    A: This is ...
    B: My opinion is ...
    A: If you keep your mouth shut, I won't assume you are mute.
    C: My opinion is ...
    A: This is "I say and you listen thread."
    D: My opinion is ...
    A: Nobody care about your opinion. Why are you still hanging around here?
     
  11. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If A puts up a clip and B says A's balance sucks, do you think B should put up a clip to prove that B's balance is better than A's balance?

    How do you know that B is not just a 10 years old kid and tries to put everybody down in a forum?
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  12. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I'm sorry. Forget my last comment. I phrased it wrong.

    A: Here is a clip of me kicking. Can you give me any tips?
    B: Your balance could use some work.
    C (to A): Your balance sucks.

    Where person B and C are both telling person A the same thing, but B does it in a way to build them up and C does it to cut them down.
     
  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Do you think C has to prove that he can do better than A before C can criticize on A?
     
  14. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    First off, I don't think C should criticize A in such a way regardless of their skill. The only exception is if it went like this:
    A: Here's a kick.
    B: You should work on your balance.
    A: My balance is perfect.
    C: No, your balance sucks.

    Second, people can be incapable of doing things for a variety of reasons. There are some black belts at my dojang that are in their mid 60s that can't do a lot of what the teenagers can. That doesn't mean that their experience and wisdom is of lesser value.
     
  15. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I disagree with this, kind of. I think people know somewhere that their opinions are just that-opinions. Maybe beliefs.The reason I think that is, if I say a fact ie: baseball is a sport involving one ball and four bases, and someone starts arguing with me about it I will get exasperated and try to explain it to them, then when they don't get it I give up. I'm fairly certain that's what most people would do in that situation.

    If I say that the Knicks are the best team this year (LOL), that's an opinion that I think is a fact. If you try to argue with it, I might get more passionate about it then I would about the baseball statement above. My assumption is that I must know somewhere that it's not actually a fact, just a belief/opinion, otherwise I wouldn't care all that much about people disagreeing.

    I do agree with your general statement: If someone is posting here as if they are informing the other posters, rather than accepting it's an opinion to discuss, the reaction to disagreement is different than if they accepted it was an opinion before posting.
     
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  16. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    I've been in enough arguments on the internet that I'm convinced most people think that "fact" is anything they believe, and "opinion" is anything someone else believes.
     
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  17. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    I does amaze me how some people are unable to debate a topic without it getting 'personal'. Forums and such can be a powerful asset or liability. People who base their belief system(s) based on limited avenues of information will have a narrow perspective on just about everything. There is a ton of information to be gleaned from this forum if a person is willing to consider the information.
    Keeping with the primarily MA theme of this forum; It is usually apparent when someone new to MA's or someone who has only ever practiced one style MA style makes a posts. This is not a bad thing. However, it does change how I will answer their post sometimes. Especially in the latter when someone is convinced their way is the only way.
    One of the incredible things I see in most people who have worked out for say, decades is a natural ability to adapt and process information into useable data.
     
  18. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Besides fact and opinion, how about logic such as:

    - Leg is longer than arm.
    - A - B < A (force against force) and A + B > A (borrow force).
    - ...

    It doesn't make sense if people even argue about the logic.
     
  19. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    Logic is how you arrive at fact and opinion.
     
  20. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Are you saying that logic may not apply to everybody?123
     

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