Anecdotal vs. empirical

[Steve]

you sort of answered you own question before asking it

people view are based on their experience and logic, there isn't any real evidence to any of them, you can disagree based on yuor experience and logic, but nothing can be proved either way, which is why this constant asking for evidence is pointless.

my style works for self defence for me, I know that I've used it such, I have no actual evidence of that, no one filmed it. But even if they had it wouldnt mean it would work the next time or for somebody else.
posting a you tube vid of someone else using your style effectively in a ring an octagon or the street, proves absolutely nothing about your ability to use it tomorrow against an unknown attacker in an un known location

I didn't ask about your anecdotal evidence vs my anecdotal evidence. I asked, "What would you think if you saw someone dismiss empirical evidence in favor of anecdotal evidence?"

 

[Steve]

Those of us who have been doing this stuff for a while have certainly met such folks. I don't think this really describes many people, tho. I think they are a definite minority, and most people are more realistic. Again, the ease of access for information makes a small thing seem much more common.

This is faulty logic. Ease of access might make small things seem much more common. It is just as possible that ease of access exposes larger trends that were previously believed to be unrelated. And everything in between. In other words, ease of access to information is neutral.

 

[jobo]

I didn't ask about your anecdotal evidence vs my anecdotal evidence. I asked, "What would you think if you saw someone dismiss empirical evidence in favor of anecdotal evidence?"

and what I'm saying is no one has provide any empirical evidence that's worth a grain of dirt. All any body is doing is apply logic and giving an unsupportable point of view

 

[Steve]

Here is the study I'm referring to: Efficacy of a Sexual Assault Resistance Program for University Women. It is specific, data driven and measurable.

It was discussed at length in this thread: Study: Women trained in self-defense less likely to be sexually assaulted...

This also came up in this thread: Fundamental pillars of self-defense? at around page 20 or so... it's a lengthy thread.

My views on self defense have not changed much since this thread.

 

[jobo]

Here is the study I'm referring to: Efficacy of a Sexual Assault Resistance Program for University Women. It is specific, data driven and measurable.

It was discussed at length in this thread: Study: Women trained in self-defense less likely to be sexually assaulted...

This also came up in this thread: Fundamental pillars of self-defense? at around page 20 or so... it's a lengthy thread.

My views on self defense have not changed much since this thread.

 

[jobo]

Here is the study I'm referring to: Efficacy of a Sexual Assault Resistance Program for University Women. It is specific, data driven and measurable.

It was discussed at length in this thread: Study: Women trained in self-defense less likely to be sexually assaulted...

This also came up in this thread: Fundamental pillars of self-defense? at around page 20 or so... it's a lengthy thread.

My views on self defense have not changed much since this thread.

 

[JR 137]

I.

there a line there to cross between good sense and being paranoid, I suggest that positioning you bed in compliance with crime reports has crossed that line

She didn't move her bed.

But if you've previously been a victim of forced entry and rape, would you consider it paranoia to move it? I'm sure someone who's attended that class at some point was previously in that situation.

 

[jobo]

She didn't move her bed.

But if you've previously been a victim of forced entry and rape, would you consider it paranoia to move it? I'm sure someone who's attended that class at some point was previously in that situation.

yes I would, but then people who have been through that have a reason to be paranoid,

 

[jobo]

Here is the study I'm referring to: Efficacy of a Sexual Assault Resistance Program for University Women. It is specific, data driven and measurable.

It was discussed at length in this thread: Study: Women trained in self-defense less likely to be sexually assaulted...

This also came up in this thread: Fundamental pillars of self-defense? at around page 20 or so... it's a lengthy thread.

My views on self defense have not changed much since this thread.

so what point are you trying to establish with that data,set

 

[Steve]

so what point are you trying to establish with that data,set

That there is a way to approach the topic of self defense empirically.

 

[Martial D]

I didn't ask about your anecdotal evidence vs my anecdotal evidence. I asked, "What would you think if you saw someone dismiss empirical evidence in favor of anecdotal evidence?"

Personally I would write off further interaction with said individual as...likely unproductive.

 

[jobo]

Personally I would write off further interaction with said individual as...likely unproductive.

or in your case than I won't let you win a debate

 

[jobo]

That there is a way to approach the topic of self defense empirically.

well there is in very restricted circumstances, . It a far more challenging to apply it across a larger population and range of possible attacks. Have you such a study in mind? Or is it just that one?

 

[Steve]

well there is in very restricted circumstances, . It a far more challenging to apply it across a larger population and range of possible attacks. Have you such a study in mind? Or is it just that one?

I think it provides a very good example of how self defense can be approached empirically. And in fact, I think it suggests that attempts to draw conclusions across a larger population and range of possible attacks are exactly the problem. it's like saying chemotherapy works for cancer, and then concluding that everyone who goes to the doctor regardless of malady should be treated with chemotherapy.

 

[jobo]

I think it provides a very good example of how self defense can be approached empirically. And in fact, I think it suggests that attempts to draw conclusions across a larger population and range of possible attacks are exactly the problem. it's like saying chemotherapy works for cancer, and then concluding that everyone who goes to the doctor regardless of malady should be treated with chemotherapy.

yes it a good example of a study with a VERY limited scope, that therefore can't be just applied to areas out side that scope.
as you seem to indicate that you dont know of any studies with a larger scope, I'm wondering what empiric value that study has to anyone who isn't female, a first year student and lives in Canada, perhaps you could explain?

 

[Steve]

yes it a good example of a study with a VERY limited scope, that therefore can't be just applied to areas out side that scope.
as you seem to indicate that you dont know of any studies with a larger scope, I'm wondering what empiric value that study has to anyone who isn't female, a first year student and lives in Canada, perhaps you could explain?

I believe I have already explained this very thing. Try this. The things you are identifying and seem to be suggesting are weaknesses in this, try flipping that and viewing them as assets or strengths. Then reconsider your questions from that perspective.

 

[jobo]

I believe I have already explained this very thing. Try this. The things you are identifying and seem to be suggesting are weaknesses in this, try flipping that and viewing them as assets or strengths. Then reconsider your questions from that perspective.

but the extremely limited scope is a weakness, please explain how this can be viewed as a strength

 

[Steve]

but the extremely limited scope is a weakness, please explain how this can be viewed as a strength

I can't spoon feed you everything. You need to do some of the work for yourself.

 

[jobo]

I can't spoon feed you everything. You need to do some of the work for yourself.

your just taking in riddles trying to wevel yourself out of the corner your in.

you posted that to prove the importance of empirical evidence, but it doesn't seem to so that at,all, so I'm wondering what your point is

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've put an edit to my last post to that effect.

I don't flash wads of cash about in public and generaly don't carry much on me anyway, that's a really good crime prevention tip, but its not by any,stretch self defence

It isn't, by my definition, but it certainly fits within the same category as having your keys in your hand when you approach your car, which some would consider part of the self-defense arena.