An Aikidoka's controversial journey into MMA: Is it helpful?

[now disabled]

Would you not need to be a shodan or higher yourself to know this?

Ummm yes lol

 

[Hanzou]

imo until you reach there you will not fully fully start getting the nuances etc and the things that well get left out or indeed you won't need as before that it unlikely in the Aikikai anyway that anyone will come at you at full force as up till then your grinding out the kihon waza the basics ....

Wouldn't that be an indication of an inefficient teaching methodology if you're spending years just getting to the point where you can use the techniques on a basic level?

Just for a point of comparison, I was implementing Kimuras and Guillotine chokes on resisting opponents about 3 months into Bjj.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I really have yet to find an Aikido school that doesn't prominently advertise self defense.

I agree with that. I think I've seen some that didn't (probably Ki Society affiliates), but it's rare.

 

[Martial D]

Ummm yes lol

But didn't you say in a different thread and I quote, you only ever attained a "lower rank"?

 

[now disabled]

Would you not need to be a shodan or higher yourself to know this?

next question lol ....answer yup I am lol well no I'm not lol but yudansha I am

 

[oftheherd1]

People place their kids into boxing and wrestling programs almost exclusively for competitive purposes. People walking into an Aikido dojo are looking for a system of self defense that will protect them. I'm fully aware that there are those who also learn Aikido for spiritual purposes, but we would be lying to ourselves if we believed that the majority of people taking Aikido weren't doing it for martial purposes.

I am sure there is something to what you say above. But I don't see an answer in there about differing rule sets. You are describing different reasons for studying one of three martial arts, not how different rules sets might place one at a disadvantage against another. Or don't you think competition rules of different arts give them advantages over arts that don't learn competition within those rules?

 

[now disabled]

I agree with that. I think I've seen some that didn't (probably Ki Society affiliates), but it's rare.

they do too as aswell as being into the Ki side they are seriously hot on the execution of what they see as perfect techniques

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So you don't start to really learn Aikido until black belt?

I think it's more accurate to say that it takes a long time to learn to put aiki principles into practice. So, for a brand new student (no useful background) they will spend years slowly building reactions, timing, and principles until they can put them together usefully. If they aren't learning basic fighting skills, I'd double the time it takes to get to "useful", since they have to use aiki principles where they are not optimal, and that requires more skill development.

 

[now disabled]

But didn't you say in a different thread and I quote, you only ever attained a "lower rank"?

not in Aikido lol I hold two different ranks in two different organisations ...the lower rank I have was in a completely different art

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But didn't you say in a different thread and I quote, you only ever attained a "lower rank"?

Most Aikidoka would consider shodan a "lower rank", probably even nidan and maybe sandan.

 

[now disabled]

I think it's more accurate to say that it takes a long time to learn to put aiki principles into practice. So, for a brand new student (no useful background) they will spend years slowly building reactions, timing, and principles until they can put them together usefully. If they aren't learning basic fighting skills, I'd double the time it takes to get to "useful", since they have to use aiki principles where they are not optimal, and that requires more skill development.

Yeah ok I was just being pedantic lol ....but yeah it does take as you know longer to get the head around the how's and the why's as some of it is not what a person would automatically do

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Wouldn't that be an indication of an inefficient teaching methodology if you're spending years just getting to the point where you can use the techniques on a basic level?

Just for a point of comparison, I was implementing Kimuras and Guillotine chokes on resisting opponents about 3 months into Bjj.

In my opinion, it's not so much that the teaching methodology is inefficient, but that they're depending upon aiki principles and techniques to cover everything. It's an inefficient approach to developing fighting skill, but it might still be as efficient an approach as you can get to actually developing that aiki skill.

 

[now disabled]

Most Aikidoka would consider shodan a "lower rank", probably even nidan and maybe sandan.

yup spot on lol ....I don't hold high rank well not in the Aikido world

 

[hoshin1600]

i havnt been able to read all the responses yet so forgive me if this has been touched upon.
i think what we are seeing is a split between different views on Aikido. i personally see aikido in a way that was not meant to be effective for self defense. to me it is very much like other arts, kyodo, shodo or Japanese tea ceremony. you dont practice it in order to compare it to a triple, venti, half sweet, non fat, caramel macchiato. which is exactly what people are trying to do by comparing Aikido with MMA.
so there is a growing division between the self defense proponents and the people who dont care about that aspect. i think eventually we will see the split large enough for the new defense art to have its own name....tactical Aiki or some such thing.

 

[now disabled]

In my opinion, it's not so much that the teaching methodology is inefficient, but that they're depending upon aiki principles and techniques to cover everything. It's an inefficient approach to developing fighting skill, but it might still be as efficient an approach as you can get to actually developing that aiki skill.

At the start it has to be slow as the kihon do take a bit of time to get used to and how to apply and hence it Kihon and static as it not the first thing most people do went a person say throws a strike deflect and use that energy and return it so to speak it more human nature to try and stop force with force

 

[now disabled]

i havnt been able to read all the responses yet so forgive me if this has been touched upon.
i think what we are seeing is a split between different views on Aikido. i personally see aikido in a way that was not meant to be effective for self defense. to me it is very much like other arts, kyodo, shodo or Japanese tea ceremony. you dont practice it in order to compare it to a triple, venti, half sweet, non fat, caramel macchiato. which is exactly what people are trying to do by comparing Aikido with MMA.
so there is a growing division between the self defense proponents and the people who dont care about that aspect. i think eventually we will see the split large enough for the new defense art to have its own name....tactical Aiki or some such thing.

No I will disagree. It was meant to be all the way just tings affected it and they all been covered before lol

 

[FriedRice]

 

[now disabled]

Oh we going to go to the Tenshin now are we

well before you start on that ...he was the real deal in Aikido ....he ain't now and yes his claims are somewhat suss but in Aikido he does hold the ran he claims all be it he didn't get it exactly when he claimed lol

 

[now disabled]

So you don't start to really learn Aikido until black belt?



If this is the case, then why do Aikidoka state that Aikido is ineffective against trained fighters?

The other little thing ya gotta remember is Aikido is not only about applying the tech you have to learn how to take the ukemi and do the breakfalls or you will not last long .......you might think that is stupid but it far from it and that does put folks of as many do not like taking but only like giving

(and befre someone tries to say ukemi and breakfalls are the same well sorry nope you can take ukemi and not need to break fall but just another little bit of nothing lol )

 

[FriedRice]

Oh we going to go to the Tenshin now are we

well before you start on that ...he was the real deal in Aikido ....he ain't now and yes his claims are somewhat suss but in Aikido he does hold the ran he claims all be it he didn't get it exactly when he claimed lol

Hey.....I didn't even say anything