Am I Just Old Fashion

[pstarr]

I agree with you, Dark. Good response!

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I used to go in for all of that sort of thing too.

Thing to remember is younger people tend to be less experienced in life and therefore less sure of themselves( I was), and so generally more afraid of attack, be it physical, mental or otherwise, and may look to these more MMA/Combative/kata-less overtestosterated MA forms can give the "Young bucks" something to do and keep them tired out, and for them this "reality" based training can give them an end to feeling afraid.

But eventually, as youth gives way to age, as 30 becomes 40, 50, 60 (Hell, I notice a difference in my own body/attitudes even now as my 20s give way to my 30s!), full contact all the time becomes damaging when you don't heal as quick, and you WILL get bored with just a fighting aspect and there had better be something else there , philosophical, artful, or otherwise, to fill that void or you won't keep doing it.

 

[Rook]

I used to go in for all of that sort of thing too.

Thing to remember is younger people tend to be less experienced in life and therefore less sure of themselves( I was), and so generally more afraid of attack, be it physical, mental or otherwise, and may look to these more MMA/Combative/kata-less overtestosterated MA forms can give the "Young bucks" something to do and keep them tired out, and for them this "reality" based training can give them an end to feeling afraid.

But eventually, as youth gives way to age, as 30 becomes 40, 50, 60 (Hell, I notice a difference in my own body/attitudes even now as my 20s give way to my 30s!), full contact all the time becomes damaging when you don't heal as quick, and you WILL get bored with just a fighting aspect and there had better be something else there , philosophical, artful, or otherwise, to fill that void or you won't keep doing it.

You know, thats probably true. However, I see no reason why this must be a package deal with martial arts... there could always be a session where people sit around and yak about their half-made up conceptions of oriental philosophy at a time when physical training isn't going on; heck, I would even go to such a session just to see what everone is thinking.... I just don't think it needs to be mixed with the physical aspects.

 

[Dark]

You know, thats probably true. However, I see no reason why this must be a package deal with martial arts... there could always be a session where people sit around and yak about their half-made up conceptions of oriental philosophy at a time when physical training isn't going on; heck, I would even go to such a session just to see what everone is thinking.... I just don't think it needs to be mixed with the physical aspects.

The thing is what about Western philosophy, allot of the same concepts. The one thing about the "mystery of the Far East" is there is no longer a mystery. Everyone falls over Chinese Alchemy and the 5 element princples, that also shows up in Japanese MAs as well. Same principle existed in Wicca a few hundred years ago. So it was a universal principle. Jujitsu is much like Pakratan (sp?) and so on. Greek, Roman and even Native American philosophy is thus very similar. It falls into the it's all been done before catagory.

 

[still learning]

Hello, This is just my opinion only!

The martial arts: The art is ....ART OF FIGHTING... nothing else.

If you do not know how to fight in your art? ....than..what the "hell" are you training for? ...this is not a dance? ....this is about fighting back,defend yourself,ending the confrontation, building good person,building confidence,strength.

The "ART" is learning the art of fighting. If you are into a style...it is ok if you can fight back.

Remember...fighting is NO-rules,anything goes,anyone can jump-in,weapons of all kinds will be use,rocks-bottles,knives,clubs,rubbish cans and so on...it is fight back or die...there is no second chance in a real street fight. Total chaos!

This is the art we are training for! not a dance or for show!

Kill or be killed! ......in the real world of fighting. In the martial arts.we can be humble and kind to the attacker by not killing or breaking anything....the choice will be yours.

Soldiers in a war are train in the art of killing..but they can take prisoners...martial arts is the "ART OF FIGHTING" ...nothing else...Aloha

 

[Dark]

I completely agree but with added consideration, the philosophy aspect existed for one reason, even in western MAs and that is to temper the kiler instinct. Look at the guys who came back from Iraq and shot their wives. Post Tromatic Stress disorder, its is uppost to be a buffer for the violence and a safe guard of reasons not to kill the paper boy for hitting your car.

 

[Rook]

I completely agree but with added consideration, the philosophy aspect existed for one reason, even in western MAs and that is to temper the kiler instinct. Look at the guys who came back from Iraq and shot their wives. Post Tromatic Stress disorder, its is uppost to be a buffer for the violence and a safe guard of reasons not to kill the paper boy for hitting your car.

Not really. Philosophical rambling come more in vogue after the need for fighting ability declines. Martial philosophy was rather thin in the intense fighting eras of Japanese history, but bloomed spectatularly into what most people think of Eastern martial arts philosophy in the Tokugawa period, when military actions were non-existant and duels and the like were in general decline.

The old warriors that had fought hard in Japan's wars and survived the duels for supremacy sometimes had philosophic thoughts because stress and bloody experiances tend to put life in perspective. However, those personal reflections were enormously expanded by the less martial samurai of the Tokugawa-era peace, who eventually pursued personal development in a spiritual context in the place of fighting ability, realizing that it was unlikely their fighting skills would ever be needed. It is striking that the rural, "backwards" and anti-philosophic Satsuma han produced many of the best samurai in Japan - they were training for war and working the land (the only major han to have landholding samurai in the Tokugawa period) rather than searching for inner peace or waxing philosophical.

 

[Dark]

Philosophical ramblings are the first weapon of people who are scared. Its liking saying I could have beaten the bully but Id have seriously hurt him so I held back...

The philosophy issue had nothing to do with a more or less martial outlook. Docturinely speaking it was about the same, the reason why so many samurai excelled was "trial by fire." A short direct philosophy and long-winded explaination of the same idea comes down to only one thing. The appearance of expertise, an expert doesn't have to prove something where as those wanting to appear as experts have long drawn out explainations.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Well, again, that's true, but I suppose it boils down to what you want out of your training as well. Certainly the combat effectiiveness must be there if what you are after is self defense capabilities. From my own experiences, after a certain age I became interested in something more beyond that and in my experiences the rwo aspects need not be mutually exclusive to work. That's the awesome thing about the whole martial arts community is that it's big and diverse enough that there really is something in there for everyone. :ultracool

Besides, If all's I could talk to people about was fighting I imagine I'd be a lot less interesting guy to talk to......

 

[Dark]

Of course with the exception of cars, women, TV and stupid thing attempted while drunk there just much worth talking about... lol

 

[Rook]

Well, again, that's true, but I suppose it boils down to what you want out of your training as well. Certainly the combat effectiiveness must be there if what you are after is self defense capabilities. From my own experiences, after a certain age I became interested in something more beyond that and in my experiences the rwo aspects need not be mutually exclusive to work. That's the awesome thing about the whole martial arts community is that it's big and diverse enough that there really is something in there for everyone. :ultracool

Besides, If all's I could talk to people about was fighting I imagine I'd be a lot less interesting guy to talk to......

Sure. I always enjoy hearing about different perspectives and Oriental philosophy can be very interesting... its just not a substitute for actual fighting ability - its a topic of interest rather than an integral part of fight training.

 

[Dark]

I always thought of it as a buffer, I'll skim over philosophy and ethics but I'm not giving a class on the Tao te Ching...

 

[Explorer]

In the meantime, I believe it's a good thing to discuss the legal implications of overreaction ... when we become the aggressors. I'm definately of the school of thought that says ..."Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." HOWEVER, if a guy threatens to slap me silly but makes no move toward me and I break his arm and rupture his spleen, mess up his hair and start dating his wife ... I could be viewed as the aggressor; from both a legal and moral standpoint. These discussions are essential in my view. We don't do 'em every night but we do talk about them. In fact some of that information is in our tests.

BTW -- what's wrong with giving them the Tao Te Qing? I've recommended it to several students. They mostly use it to hold down their desks or prop open doors ... but hey, they've got it!

 

[Dark]

BTW -- what's wrong with giving them the Tao Te Qing? I've recommended it to several students. They mostly use it to hold down their desks or prop open doors ... but hey, they've got it!

I quote it sometimes, but I don't force it to be read.