Aikido.. The reality?

[Gerry Seymour]

Show me where I called you a liar? Show me a quote.

I will continue to dismiss theist arguments of emotional bullying and insults. Not because I care or am gettingupset. But because they fundamentally are not arguments.

You are not making a legitimate point.

Every time you've made a claim about my training that is counter to what I've said about my training. You know what you're doing. You know it's douchey. You just don't care.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You would still have to be handy with just striking. So there are these cheeky shots you Chan hit from say a clinch. But they are not dominant over basic striking.

I agree. You would need to be at least average with striking. Which is why I think a lot of Aikido vs Guy who punches often fails. If we look at the Martial Arts Journey guy, we can see how deficient his striking is, and it's really bad.

If I were to grab someone, I would probably mix close fist and open hand strikes. That way my opponent wouldn't know if I was going to attempt to grab or punch. This falls in line with some of the techniques that can be used as a punch or a grab. The motion is the same, the only difference is open hand or closed fist.

I need to get a more detailed look at some of the techniques and then try to visualize some scenarios in which I may try to grab someone in a similar manner. I think if I can get the grab then I can get something else. when we look at the videos we see how difficult it is to grab punches and moving wrists.

I know grabbing punches out of the air isn't my thing (probably not anyone's thing), so I don't want to go down that path. I'm not interested in stopping or redirecting haymakers and hooks. It's too costly if miss thoses Jabs are probably easier to deal with as a beginner who doesn't know any Aikido techniques.

 

[JowGaWolf]

To be kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself.

I agree with this but, I'm starting to think sparring with Wang may not be a good idea lol

 

[JowGaWolf]

getting closer. I'm guessing those over hand strikes are chops to the neck?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

To be honest most of the Aikido sparring that I've seen, seems to abandon striking. They wade in with the intent to grab a wrist. Which is like me telling you. I'm going to grab your wrist and put you in a wrist lock, then I proceed and only try to get the wrist lock. There's no need for you to defend against anything else because you by my focus that I'm only going to do 1 thing.

This is by far the most common thing I've seen in videos of "Aikido sparring" (and NGA sparring). And, IMO, it's entirely antithetical to the principles of the arts invovled. It betrays a misunderstanding of basic grappling and the arts. And it's what happens in some systems (can't speak for all) when there's no resistive training to put the drills in context.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

getting closer. I'm guessing those over hand strikes are chops to the neck?

To the forehead and temple, the way I've seen them, for reasons I don't understand.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I know grabbing punches out of the air isn't my thing (probably not anyone's thing), so I don't want to go down that path. I'm not interested in stopping or redirecting haymakers and hooks. It's too costly if miss thoses Jabs are probably easier to deal with as a beginner who doesn't know any Aikido techniques.

I'm not convinced punches (except the absolute worst ones) can be grabbed. I've never seen it done in any realistic manner. As for redirecting big haymakers, they're easier to read and deal with than jabs. Hooks are a different matter, and it depends who's punching, among other things. Jabs are what I use to show folks they have to be able to "spar" (work the striking game) to get to some of the grappling they like. A decent jab just isn't easy to lay hands on.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

From the "power generation" point of view, should his chop go all the way down and pass through the target?

 

[JowGaWolf]

To the forehead and temple, the way I've seen them, for reasons I don't understand.

Same here, I was having trouble understanding the mechanics of it. Finding video of punching in Aikido is really difficult.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I'm not convinced punches (except the absolute worst ones) can be grabbed. I've never seen it done in any realistic manner. As for redirecting big haymakers, they're easier to read and deal with than jabs. Hooks are a different matter, and it depends who's punching, among other things. Jabs are what I use to show folks they have to be able to "spar" (work the striking game) to get to some of the grappling they like. A decent jab just isn't easy to lay hands on.

My biggest success in terms of grabbing a punch has been any punch that I can get to before it hits 50% extension. After a punch passes the 50% mark, it becomes increasingly difficult to catch. Basically by the time I try to grab it, it is already returning to chamber and the other one is now coming out.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm not convinced punches (except the absolute worst ones) can be grabbed.

As long as you can separate your opponent's arms away from his head and take his front door, you can wrap his punching arm.

 

[JowGaWolf]

From the "power generation" point of view, should his chop go all the way down and pass through the target?

I tried it. It feels weak. Like there was a power connection missing. So when I added the body connection to generate the power I was left with kung fu. Strike and foot land at same time. But in the Aikido clip, the foot lands and then strike lands. Which for me creates some timing issues.

Just out of curiosity what is the guy in the red pants doing. Throwing someone, cutting someone (sword technique) or staff technique.?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

After a punch passes the 50% mark, it becomes increasingly difficult to catch.

Agree with you 100% there. This is why when your opponent punches you, you should also jump in at the same time when his punch hasn't reached to the maximum speed and maximum power yet.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Just out of curiosity what is the guy in the red pants doing. Throwing someone, cutting someone (sword technique) or staff technique.?

He is from the XingYi Liu He system. The main purpose of this training is to develop the body method that you "only see the body movement, and you don't see the arm movement".

 

[JowGaWolf]

He is from the XingYi Liu He system. The main purpose of this training is to develop the body method that you "only see the body movement, and you don't see the arm movement".

I was way off lol. But it makes sense to me. I uses a similar concept in sparring, I'm not sure but from what I can tell in sparring it's the reason why Hung Ga, Choy Li Fut and Jow Ga are able to land the big circular punches and your "Only see the body movement, and you don't see the arm movement " sounds very similar to how I explained it to my son.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I was way off lol. But it makes sense to me. I uses a similar concept in sparring, I'm not sure but from what I can tell in sparring it's the reason why Hung Ga, Choy Li Fut and Jow Ga are able to land the big circular punches and your "Only see the body movement, and you don't see the arm movement " sounds very similar to how I explained it to my son.

Old CMA saying said, "If you can train your sword form without holding a sword, you will understand what body method is."

Sometime I like to train punch by putting my arms behind my back. I just concentrate on how my body suppose to move and totally ignore my arms.

I assume its similar to the "sine wave pattern" discussed in another thread.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I think I understand this one now. I had to do it a punch of times to keep it from being kung fu. Those pants threw me off as well. I thought he was stepping forward but didn't realize it until after I got enough of the Kung Fu out of the movement.

So this is what I'm seeing in this video based on what I know. I'll start with the feet.
1. He's stepping at a"45 ish" angle, which means he's stepping off center. If he's stepping off center like that then it's because he's dealing with an incoming jab. You guys have actually seen me do the same foot work. The biggest different is that he walks into the angle and I shuffle into the angle. The challenge of walking into an angle is that you have to be good with seeing the distance between you and your opponent, If you aren't careful you'll walk into a punch.

As I did this, I'm imagining a jab coming in and I'm stepping off the center.line. This only works if your hands are in a fighting stance. My forward movement triggers the jab (hopefully). My left hand must shoot between the jab so and my striking hand so that I can redirect the jab. If I can redirect the jab, then I will have an open shot to the back of my opponents head. Probably right behind the ear. I'm basing this on the angle of the strike and how his left arm treads the space between the attacking jab and the open hand strike.

Doing this movement from a fighting stance with your guard up gets rid of the telegraph strike. I cold be wrong about this as I don't do Aikido, but I've hit people with strikes from similar movements. The fact that his foot work looks very similar to my footwork makes me think that's what's going on.

I went back over the foot work and walking forward makes it easier to thread that left hand. In the clip. That strike works better if your attacker has his left hand forward, power hand back. Which is how most right handed people stand. The step is probably smaller in application than what we see here.

What do you think GpSeymour? Give it a try and see if it feels that way when the technique is used like that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Old CMA saying said, "If you can train your sword form without holding a sword, you will understand what body method is."

I converted my staff form into an open hand form. I'll let you know how that works out lol.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm confused here. If he is

1. chasing his opponent, he doesn't need to step to the side.
2. dealing with an incoming attack, he doesn't have time to step in that far.

For 2, he can step in his left leading leg first, he then steps his right leg to the side (wheeling step), and chops his left hand out. This way he can achieve the same goal without having to move his feet that much.

I must miss something here.

 

[drop bear]

Every time you've made a claim about my training that is counter to what I've said about my training. You know what you're doing. You know it's douchey. You just don't care.

No it is douchey to expect people to believe you without backing your claim.