Aikido against a boxer

[Kung Fu Wang]

I really can't see a need to blend or flow with that.

You are right! To blend or flow with your opponent in that situation is a bad idea. If you let your opponent to get behind you, he can get your leg.

 

[Ryback]

Good analogy.

So do gun shooty people train specifically to defend against martial artists?

Of course they don't. They get the right distance. They get the gun pointed at you. And they can hit what they aim at. And it doesn't matter what martial arts someone does.

Those factors become interchangeable. It doesn't even matter if they are developed with street or sport in mind.

Oh yeah and also people with tanks are even better than that because no matter the distance, your training or your weapons they are gonna get you, while you cannot hurt them.
Of course I still can't see any relevance to martial arts...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I've long said that if you put an Aikidoka against someone who won't commit weight, they'll end up looking more like Judo if they're going to be effective. The "ju" in Judo is a similar concept to the "ai" in Aikido.

This is why it's important to compare 2 different MA systems such as Aikido and Judo. To compare Aikido with boxing may be too far. But to compare Aikido with Judo should be much similar.

It's hard for me to believe that in Japan, there were not Aikido guys who tried to test their skill against Judo guys (or the other way around).

 

[now disabled]

I really can't see a need to blend or flow with that.

It an Aikido concept that blending is part of the whole thing

It not easy to grasp that and in fact in your art you do blend with things just you don't think of it like Aikidoka or other related Aikido arts do

 

[pdg]

If you let your opponent to get behind you, he can get your leg.

IF he can hold my arm long enough to get behind me at such a range as to have access to my leg.

 

[now disabled]

This is why it's important to compare 2 different MA systems such as Aikido and Judo. To compare Aikido with boxing may be too far. But to compare Aikido with Judo should be much similar.

It's hard for me to believe that in Japan, there were not Aikido guys who tried to test their skill against Judo guys (or the other way around).

Kano sent students to Ueshiba to study early on

Many of Ueshiba's deshi in the early days had studied judo before Aikido and the one that was mentioned recently Shioda did

 

[pdg]

It an Aikido concept that blending is part of the whole thing

It not easy to grasp that and in fact in your art you do blend with things just you don't think of it like Aikidoka or other related Aikido arts do

It depends on how you interpret 'blend'.

In the specific case of the singular type of arm hold shown in that video, it looks very much to me as though resisting by keeping the arm bent is what enables the hold and turn.

Straighten the arm, step forward out of the hold, find yourself in kicking range.

Is that blending? Because in that specific scenario that would be my most likely response.

There are many things that I could describe as blending with TKD, but whether you'd look at them and see blending or not is an entirely different matter.

And that's the sort of thing I'd like to explore with like minded partners if I get the chance.

 

[now disabled]

It depends on how you interpret 'blend'.

In the specific case of the singular type of arm hold shown in that video, it looks very much to me as though resisting by keeping the arm bent is what enables the hold and turn.

Straighten the arm, step forward out of the hold, find yourself in kicking range.

Is that blending? Because in that specific scenario that would be my most likely response.

There are many things that I could describe as blending with TKD, but whether you'd look at them and see blending or not is an entirely different matter.

And that's the sort of thing I'd like to explore with like minded partners if I get the chance.

that is where the confusion starts lol as in Aikido it is to the fore and in everything as it a core principle

Other arts don't do that and thereby it gets confusing in the terminology etc etc etc

 

[pdg]

Other arts don't do that and thereby it gets confusing in the terminology etc etc etc

That's nothing, go have a look at the discussion concerning the terminology differences for essentially the same move in tkd and tkd...

(Yes, you probably read that right)

 

[now disabled]

That's nothing, go have a look at the discussion concerning the terminology differences for essentially the same move in tkd and tkd...

(Yes, you probably read that right)

there the same in Aikido to lol not all use the same words for the same tech lol but blending is a core to all Ueshiba style or derived Aikido

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

In the specific case of the singular type of arm hold shown in that video, it looks very much to me as though resisting by keeping the arm bent is what enables the hold and turn.

Straighten the arm, step forward out of the hold, find yourself in kicking range.

If you use your right hand to touch your left elbow joint, you will find bones on both side of your elbow joint - medial epicondyle, lateral epicondyle. If you put your thumb and index finger on these 2 bones, even if your opponent may straight his arm, you can still pull his arm.

 

[pdg]

If you use your right hand to touch your left elbow joint, you will find bones on both side of your elbow joint - medial epicondyle, lateral epicondyle. If you put your thumb and index finger on these 2 bones, even if your opponent may straight his arm, you can still pull his arm.

But in the first video the thumb and finger are nowhere near those bones, it looks more like an elbow to elbow crook.

And that's not even accounting for the fact that I don't think you'd have sufficient strength in a finger/thumb grip on my elbow to hold on, let alone move my body if I didn't want you to.

(Note I said don't think, I didn't say "pfft that's impossible" because I'd accept someone trying)

 

[drop bear]

Do you know any boxing style that instead of training to defeat another boxer in the ring, people are training to counter traditional Martial arts techniques found in Aiki-jutsu, Aikido, ken-jutsu, Jo-do, Tai-Chi, Wing Chun...?

You don't think they commit weight?

 

[drop bear]

Oh yeah and also people with tanks are even better than that because no matter the distance, your training or your weapons they are gonna get you, while you cannot hurt them.
Of course I still can't see any relevance to martial arts...

There are circumstances in martial arts where what you train works an overwhelming fundamental basic.

So you can't wrist lock a tank driver because there is a tank in the way. But a tank is not vulnerable when it attacks an Aikidoka. Because it is a tank.

You can't attack a boxer without making yourself vulnerable.

But like a tank a boxer does not have to concern himself as much with Aikido. Because can attack without making himself vulnerable.

You have to move through the boxers specialized range. A boxer just has to keep that range.

 

[Ryback]

There are circumstances in martial arts where what you train works an overwhelming fundamental basic.

So you can't wrist lock a tank driver because there is a tank in the way. But a tank is not vulnerable when it attacks an Aikidoka. Because it is a tank.

You can't attack a boxer without making yourself vulnerable.

But like a tank a boxer does not have to concern himself as much with Aikido. Because can attack without making himself vulnerable.

You have to move through the boxers specialized range. A boxer just has to keep that range.

A boxer doesn't have to concern himself with Aikido because he can attack without being vulnerable??????
He is vulnerable the moment he attacks an Aikidoka...

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't think you'd have sufficient strength in a finger/thumb grip on my elbow to hold on, let alone move my body if I didn't want you to.

The original "circular dragging" principle was used on the wrestling jacket. To drag a sweated arm can be more difficulty.

 

[drop bear]

A boxer doesn't have to concern himself with Aikido because he can attack without being vulnerable??????
He is vulnerable the moment he attacks an Aikidoka...

Have you tested this?

 

[Martial D]

Have you tested this?

Lots and lots of people have tested this. The evidence is pretty conclusive.

 

[drop bear]

Lots and lots of people have tested this. The evidence is pretty conclusive.

I have tested it. And yeah. pretty much.

 

[now disabled]

A boxer doesn't have to concern himself with Aikido because he can attack without being vulnerable??????
He is vulnerable the moment he attacks an Aikidoka...

No matter who it is or what style or art everyone who attacks is vulnerable to some extent. It maybe more or less depending on skill and other factors so you are right he is vulnerable to what extent is open to argument point of view and other factors