A Stolen Election in 2004?

[modarnis]

The situation between this case of voter fraud and the one in Ukraine are frighteningly similiar. I would say the biggest difference is the technologic aspect that was used to throw this election.

Also, this issue is going to hit the press. There is no way information like this can be kept silent for long. Heck, I've read it. You now read it and so have a whole bunch of other people.

We need to remember, Watergate took years to pan out. Because of the internet, this thing is going to blast off sooner. My prediction is that people are going to go to jail. The Bush Administration will claim they had no idea and it will be very difficult to tie anything to them.

They will get off the hook and sometime late in 2008 the key people in jail will recieve a fortuitous pardon...

Yet, the damage will be done. Who is really going to trust elections after this?

Correct me if I am wrong, but the push for all of this high tech vote tallying came from the "stolen" election in 2000 when people were incapable of punching a little chad out of a paper ballot. Its time to move on with the business of our nation. The election is over and Kerry conceded without issue.

 

[Makalakumu]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the push for all of this high tech vote tallying came from the "stolen" election in 2000 when people were incapable of punching a little chad out of a paper ballot. Its time to move on with the business of our nation. The election is over and Kerry conceded without issue.

The Help Americans Vote Act (HAVA) did nothing of the sort. In fact, it made it harder for people to vote and it made it easier to cheat. There are active groups out there attempting to publicize this material. In the House of Representatives, objections to HAVA have repeatedly been blocked from the house floor by Dennis Hastert and Tom Delay.

I myself have researched the changes that HAVA has wrecked upon our democracy. In MN alone, we have 19 new laws that make it more difficult for people to vote. The people who are affected are disproportionately poor, minority, or poorly educated...all of which should have the same opportunity to vote as GWB himself.

HAVA makes it easier for states to heap up the pile of provisional ballots. In the south, these votes are pile upon pile of minority or democratic votes. These votes are legally able to be thrown away under the "new" rules instituted by the Republican congress and signed by this Republican president.

The bottom line is that the party that once stood for freedom is taking away the freedom that this country gives its citizens. It is literally destroying our democracy. How can you move on to governing this country when you don't know who is suppose to be governing this country? Are you so comfortable with this autocracy that you are willing to shrug it off?

I don't want to assume to much, so please separate yourself from this generalization if it does not apply, but I have to say that in the blogosphere where this information is circulating, the above response is common. As is the response that "it didn't happen." This is despite all of the evidence that comes out to the contrary.

I don't understand. Have we reached a point where winning at all costs in politics even if it means throwing our constitution into the trash is acceptable? Seriously, this issue shouldn't be partisan because it attacks the basic core of what it means to be a citizen in a democracy.

The fact that it is partisan pretty much ensures that justice will not be done correctly. To many, despite the evidence, this will be just another Liberal Plot against the True Americans. No matter who goes to jail, it might not even make a difference. History will then repeat itself.

upnorthkyosa

 

[deadhand31]

You know, there are several things to touch on here. First, let's take a look at the following paper:
http://www.assassinationscience.com/The_Exit_Poll_Discrepancy.pdf

In the second page, there is a chart that shows predicted and actual vote percentages. It shows how Kerry was predicted by exit polls, but Bush won. Just take a look at the sampling size. None of them are larger than 2900 test voters. Now, just humor me... how exactly can we adequately base a state election where the actual population is in the millions off of less than one percent of the vote?

Second, I believe there was talk of modems on these machines. If the article is stating that these diebold voting machines in Florida had modems, it only demonstrates ignorance on their part. The only state that had Diebold machines with modems was California. Does this mean we should check out California's systems, and see if Kerry stole these votes?

Also, the following article states the Diebold voting machines DO leave a paper trail:

http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=2028956

 

[deadhand31]

The Help Americans Vote Act (HAVA) did nothing of the sort. In fact, it made it harder for people to vote and it made it easier to cheat. There are active groups out there attempting to publicize this material. In the House of Representatives, objections to HAVA have repeatedly been blocked from the house floor by Dennis Hastert and Tom Delay.

I myself have researched the changes that HAVA has wrecked upon our democracy. In MN alone, we have 19 new laws that make it more difficult for people to vote. The people who are affected are disproportionately poor, minority, or poorly educated...all of which should have the same opportunity to vote as GWB himself.

HAVA makes it easier for states to heap up the pile of provisional ballots. In the south, these votes are pile upon pile of minority or democratic votes. These votes are legally able to be thrown away under the "new" rules instituted by the Republican congress and signed by this Republican president.

The bottom line is that the party that once stood for freedom is taking away the freedom that this country gives its citizens. It is literally destroying our democracy. How can you move on to governing this country when you don't know who is suppose to be governing this country? Are you so comfortable with this autocracy that you are willing to shrug it off?

I don't want to assume to much, so please separate yourself from this generalization if it does not apply, but I have to say that in the blogosphere where this information is circulating, the above response is common. As is the response that "it didn't happen." This is despite all of the evidence that comes out to the contrary.

I don't understand. Have we reached a point where winning at all costs in politics even if it means throwing our constitution into the trash is acceptable? Seriously, this issue shouldn't be partisan because it attacks the basic core of what it means to be a citizen in a democracy.

The fact that it is partisan pretty much ensures that justice will not be done correctly. To many, despite the evidence, this will be just another Liberal Plot against the True Americans. No matter who goes to jail, it might not even make a difference. History will then repeat itself.

upnorthkyosa

The thing about provisional ballots, we can't be guaranteed about their validity. These ballots can allow one person to drive to every county in their state and vote. If it is found that the person who cast the ballot was in the right precinct, then it is counted. If it turns out that it wasn't, then it is thrown out.

Personally, I don't think we should even allow provisional ballots. We see and hear campaign ads for over a year before the election, so we all know that an election is coming. As a US citizen, it is our civic responsibility to ensure that we vote for the right candidate. That means if you're confused about how a ballot works, you are responsible for asking for help. If you don't know where you need to vote, you can call a city hall or police department months in advance to find out. If you even think that you mae a mistake on a ballot, then it's your responsibility to ask for another ballot.

If you fully support your candidate, you owe it to them and your country to ensure that you show it by voting correctly.

 

[Tgace]

You know, there are several things to touch on here. First, let's take a look at the following paper:
http://www.assassinationscience.com/The_Exit_Poll_Discrepancy.pdf

In the second page, there is a chart that shows predicted and actual vote percentages. It shows how Kerry was predicted by exit polls, but Bush won. Just take a look at the sampling size. None of them are larger than 2900 test voters. Now, just humor me... how exactly can we adequately base a state election where the actual population is in the millions off of less than one percent of the vote?

Second, I believe there was talk of modems on these machines. If the article is stating that these diebold voting machines in Florida had modems, it only demonstrates ignorance on their part. The only state that had Diebold machines with modems was California. Does this mean we should check out California's systems, and see if Kerry stole these votes?

Also, the following article states the Diebold voting machines DO leave a paper trail:

http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=2028956

Dont you get it? Bush Won! There MUST be a conspiracy. :shrug:

 

[Jeff Boler]

Geez, this thread reads like an episode of Coast to Coast AM. Conspiracy theorists unite.....

 

[MisterMike]

It just keeps getting better!

 

[Kreth]

I'm reminded of a parody of the Gore/Lieberman bumper stickers that I saw shortly after the 2000 election, which read Sore/Loserman.
I'm not even a Bush supporter, and I'm tired of all the whining from the Democrats...

Jeff

 

[Makalakumu]

I'm reminded of a parody of the Gore/Lieberman bumper stickers that I saw shortly after the 2000 election, which read Sore/Loserman.
I'm not even a Bush supporter, and I'm tired of all the whining from the Democrats...

Jeff

Is this whining or is this fraud?

In Broward County, Florida, election workers were shocked to discover that their shiny new machines were counting backwards. "Tallies should go up as more votes are counted," according to this report. "That's simple math. But in some races, the numbers had gone down. Officials found the software used in Broward can handle only 32,000 votes per precinct. After that, the system starts counting backward."

In Franklin County, Ohio, electronic voting machines gave Bush 3,893 extra votes in one precinct alone. "Franklin County's unofficial results gave Bush 4,258 votes to Democratic challenger John Kerry's 260 votes in Precinct 1B," according to this report. "Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct. Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, said Bush received 365 votes there. The other 13 voters who cast ballots either voted for other candidates or did not vote for president."

In Craven County, North Carolina, a software error on the electronic voting machines awarded Bush 11,283 extra votes. "The Elections Systems and Software equipment," according to this report, "had downloaded voting information from nine of the county's 26 precincts and as the absentee ballots were added, the precinct totals were added a second time. An override, like those occurring when one attempts to save a computer file that already exists, is supposed to prevent double counting, but did not function correctly."

In Carteret County, North Carolina, "More than 4,500 votes may be lost in one North Carolina county because officials believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did. Local officials said UniLect Corp., the maker of the county's electronic voting system, told them that each storage unit could handle 10,500 votes, but the limit was actually 3,005 votes. Officials said 3,005 early votes were stored, but 4,530 were lost."

In LaPorte County, Indiana, a Democratic stronghold, the electronic voting machines decided that each precinct only had 300 voters. "At about 7 p.m. Tuesday," according to this report, "it was noticed that the first two or three printouts from individual precinct reports all listed an identical number of voters. Each precinct was listed as having 300 registered voters. That means the total number of voters for the county would be 22,200, although there are actually more than 79,000 registered voters."

In Sarpy County, Nebraska, the electronic touch screen machines got generous. "As many as 10,000 extra votes," according to this report, "have been tallied and candidates are still waiting for corrected totals. Johnny Boykin lost his bid to be on the Papillion City Council. The difference between victory and defeat in the race was 127 votes. Boykin says, 'When I went in to work the next day and saw that 3,342 people had shown up to vote in our ward, I thought something's not right.' He's right. There are not even 3,000 people registered to vote in his ward. For some reason, some votes were counted twice."

Especially when you consider this...

"Dr. Piotr Blass, chief technology advisor at ZeoSync, said "Our recent accomplishment is so significant that highly randomized information sequences, which were once considered non-reducible by the scientific community, are now massively reducible using advanced single-bit-variance encoding and supporting technologies."

"The technologies that are being developed at ZeoSync are anticipated to ultimately provide a means to perform multi-pass data encoding and compression on practically random data sets with applicability to nearly every industry," said Jim Slemp, president of Radical Systems, Inc.

"The evaluation of the complex algorithms is currently being performed with small practically random data sets due to the analysis times on standard computers. Based on our internally validated test results of these components, we have demonstrated a single-point-variance when encoding random data into a smaller data set. The ability to encode single-point-variance data is expected to yield multi-pass capable systems after temporal issues are addressed."

http://www.amrad.org/pipermail/lf/2002q1.txt

Doctor, are you certain that such multi-pass capable systems aren't already in use?

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cach...=en target=nw
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-839851.html

http://www.duxcw.com/newsold/2002/jan.htm

It appears that they were in use in several florida based locations and oddly enough it was compounded into multiple operating systems...Including Oracle including Windows NT, so lets see then...

Lucent technologies adapts the program followed by CyberNET and its legacy based software department CyberNET systems, which is even on their company page. It appears as though ZeoSync largely based in Florida was involved in this whole deal to develop the software...

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cach...=en target=nw

The software is nothing but a code, a shell code easily applied into any legacy database which is what Cyber has always specialized in. The same companies trading stock with the machine voting vendors.....What did I discover about your interesting code Dr. Blass?

Reverse integer integrations appear across the board, depending on the bit size. Having personally heard on the radio today, from Ohio state talking about the new smoking evidence of election fraud they found....I did a little back ground check.

Guess what happened to the tabulators the lawyers found which lost all the Kerry votes? They ended up counting backwards....They ended up reversing integers, which based on the studies of Dr. Blass, this entire program was sold and patented to rig elections....Think about it, unparalleled control of elections due to database source code, which could be found in normal voting machines and their programmers all the way down to small end company network systems. All with one purpose in mind: Control the numbers.....

Still, it is good to be skeptical. Yet, this information displays some disturbing correllations, don't you think?

 

[Makalakumu]

Dont you get it? Bush Won! There MUST be a conspiracy. :shrug:

Did you take an oath to protect and defend the constitution when you joined the military? Does blowing off the fact that people's constitutional rights were violated fall in line with that oath? If your vote wasn't counted and you made a stink and someone told you that this was nothing but a silly conspiracy theory, it would feel like a slap in the face.

 

[Makalakumu]

Geez, this thread reads like an episode of Coast to Coast AM. Conspiracy theorists unite.....

Apparently you are of the "it didn't happen" mindset. Perhaps you have some information that I don't regarding this matter???

 

[MisterMike]

UPNORTH,

As usuall your research is very commendable. Nobody can say you do not do your "homework."

I don't have the time to read all of that but has there been anything brought to congress' attention or any real investigation by the FBI begun?

Most of the links seem to be to other websites, but what really has been properly brought to the attention of the authorities and what has been done about it?

If the smoke is real, action on the part of the gov't to me would signal a fire.

 

[Makalakumu]

You know, there are several things to touch on here. First, let's take a look at the following paper:
http://www.assassinationscience.com/The_Exit_Poll_Discrepancy.pdf

In the second page, there is a chart that shows predicted and actual vote percentages. It shows how Kerry was predicted by exit polls, but Bush won. Just take a look at the sampling size. None of them are larger than 2900 test voters. Now, just humor me... how exactly can we adequately base a state election where the actual population is in the millions off of less than one percent of the vote?

Second, I believe there was talk of modems on these machines. If the article is stating that these diebold voting machines in Florida had modems, it only demonstrates ignorance on their part. The only state that had Diebold machines with modems was California. Does this mean we should check out California's systems, and see if Kerry stole these votes?

Also, the following article states the Diebold voting machines DO leave a paper trail:

http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=2028956

Thanks for your reply and for your informed skepticism.

As far as your point regarding the sample size is concerned, that is actually a pretty good sample. If you look into the book "Principles and Methods of Social Research" by William D. Crano and Marilynn B. Brewer, the size of the sample and the size of the actual number is predictive.

Your second point regarding modems on the machines is not taking into account network connections that ran vote tallies to a central computer that looks very much like the one I am typing on. It was demonstrated that this central computer can be compromised in less then 90 seconds. Mr. Fisher's information leads to a list of names of people who tampered with Florida's voting in this way.

Regarding your third point, yes, some of the machines do leave a paper trail and others do not. Beverly Harris auther of "Black Box Voting" filed perhaps one of the largest freedom of information filings in our nations history in order to examine the trail from the ones that did. I believe the above statistical study predicts the results of this study.

 

[Makalakumu]

UPNORTH,

As usuall your research is very commendable. Nobody can say you do not do your "homework."

I don't have the time to read all of that but has there been anything brought to congress' attention or any real investigation by the FBI begun?

Most of the links seem to be to other websites, but what really has been properly brought to the attention of the authorities and what has been done about it?

If the smoke is real, action on the part of the gov't to me would signal a fire.

To answer your questions...

This letter indicates congressional action...

November 5, 2004
The Honorable David M. Walker
Comptroller General of the United States
U.S. General Accountability Office
441 G Street, NW
Washington, DC 20548

Dear Mr. Walker:

We write with an urgent request that the Government Accountability Office immediately undertake an investigation of the efficacy of voting machines and new technologies used in the 2004 election, how election officials responded to difficulties they encountered and what we can do in the future to improve our election systems and administration.

In particular, we are extremely troubled by the following reports, which we would also request that you review and evaluate for us:

In Columbus, Ohio, an electronic voting system gave President Bush nearly 4,000 extra votes. ("Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes," Associated Press, November 5)

An electronic tally of a South Florida gambling ballot initiative failed to record thousands of votes. "South Florida OKs Slot Machines Proposal," (Id.)

In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots could hold more data that it did. "Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes," (Id.)

In San Francisco, a glitch occurred with voting machines software that resulted in some votes being left uncounted. (Id.)

In Florida, there was a substantial drop off in Democratic votes in proportion to voter registration in counties utilizing optical scan machines that was apparently not present in counties using other mechanisms.

The House Judiciary Committee Democratic staff has received numerous reports from Youngstown, Ohio that voters who attempted to cast a vote for John Kerry on electronic voting machines saw that their votes were instead recorded as votes for George W. Bush. In South Florida, Congressman Wexler's staff received numerous reports from voters in Palm Beach, Broward and Dade Counties that they attempted to select John Kerry but George Bush appeared on the screen. CNN has reported that a dozen voters in six states, particularly Democrats in Florida, reported similar problems. This was among over one thousand such problems reported. ("Touchscreen Voting Problems Reported," Associated Press, November 5)

Excessively long lines were a frequent problem throughout the nation in Democratic precincts, particularly in Florida and Ohio. In one Ohio voting precinct serving students from Kenyon College, some voters were required to wait more than eight hours to vote. ("All Eyes on Ohio," Dan Lothian, CNN, November 3)

We are literally receiving additional reports every minute and will transmit additional information as it comes available. The essence of democracy is the confidence of the electorate in the accuracy of voting methods and the fairness of voting procedures. In 2000, that confidence suffered terribly, and we fear that such a blow to our democracy may have occurred in 2004.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this inquiry.

Sincerely,

John Conyers, Jr., Jerrold Nadler, Robert Wexler

Ranking Member, Ranking Member, Member of Congress
House Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on the Constitution

cc: Hon. F. James Sensenbrenner, Chairman

This is the name of the FBI agent and action taken thus far with Mr. Fisher's claims.

On Monday 11/8/04 Jeff Fisher and Al Rogers met with the FBI for approximately two hours giving them a detailed report regarding electronic election fraud originating in Florida. They were interviewed by two agents. The location was at 505 Flagler Dr. West Palm Beach, Florida. The name of the supervising agent was Jeff Favita. His phone number is 305-944-9101.

On Wednesday, 11/17/04 I faxed to the Miami FBI office between 4:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. an email from Dr. Blass that strengthened my statement regarding proving loyalty was neccesary to obtain information from the "sender".

I hope this helps. :asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The investigation into the alegations of voter fraud and abuse are expected to be complete in early 2009. If it is proven that problems did exist, I can guarentee you that Dubya will not be allowed to run for reelection.

 

[raedyn]

If it is proven that problems did exist, I can guarentee you that Dubya will not be allowed to run for reelection.

I thought a President could only serve 2 consecutive terms anyways?

 

[Makalakumu]

The investigation into the alegations of voter fraud and abuse are expected to be complete in early 2009. If it is proven that problems did exist, I can guarentee you that Dubya will not be allowed to run for reelection.

I think that it is an established fact that there was widespread problems with the electronic voting machines and voting in general. This alone should not be tolerated in our country.

Let alone an actual plot to rig a national election...that is treason in my opinion.

Oh well, its nothing new. In forty years of presidents we had one resign before he could be impeached, one voted out before he could do anything to illegal, one who can't remember committing treason, one who created Saddam Hussein and then used our national treasure to protect his own interests, and now one who possibly orchastrated the biggest subversion of democracy in our nation's history...Oh yeah, we also had a president who lied about an affair.

The simple fact of the matter is that the Bush political dynasty has a history of corruption that goes back a long long way. Prescott Bush escaped Nurenburg and used the money he made from financing Auschwitz to run for the senate. Both him and his son, Bush the Elder (poppy) rigged state elections in Texas through voter intimidation and ballot stealing. These guys run the dirtiest campaigns in history with the likes of Lee Atwater and Karl Rove and have proven again and again that they will do anything, say anything to get elected.

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest...I believe your time table of 2009 is correct though.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I thought a President could only serve 2 consecutive terms anyways?

It is. But the law doesn't mean much to this bunch. I'm sure buried in that 3,500 page budget they didn't read, that theres a loophole to allow for a 3rd term.

 

[qizmoduis]

It is. But the law doesn't mean much to this bunch. I'm sure buried in that 3,500 page budget they didn't read, that theres a loophole to allow for a 3rd term.

I'm pretty sure it would require a constitutional amendment to change this, rather than a law. Lucky for us. Too bad the constitution doesn't stipulate a minimum level of intelligence and competence as well. My dog would be a better president than Shrub.

But as you said, the law doesn't have much meaning to these people. Neither does the constitution. Elections and civil rights are just inconveniences to them and their elitist agenda.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Hmm... it would take a constitutional amendment.....

constitutional amendment + Congress doesn't read what they pass = ????

Now, where did I see the administration trying to push through a constitutional amendment before.....