a serious question for all

[Gemini]

I know how I would answer the question, but it's not me we're talking about it's you. So, I would suggest looking at it like this. It's the instructor's responsibility to instruct. It's the student's responsibility to learn. If the instructor is using methods that are counter productive to your learning, he isn't the instructor to you. To train under an instructor, you MUST believe in him. My own instructor has often said or done things that make no sense to me, but over the years the reasoning behind his instruction have consistently revealed themselves in their time. I trust him without question. I know people that respond well to the instruction methods you mentioned. Personally, I'm not one of them nor would I ever train under such an individual. If you cannot or will not learn from this type of instruction, go somewhere else. It's a very personal thing and only you can decide what's right for you.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

My instructor is the one that was insensitive to the health issues besides that he had not taught me anythign new in over 10 years. I had assumed the responsibility of Chief Instructor and was teaching all of his classes while he got paid to sit on his can. I guess this is why I got real hot when he said that I could see it I just didn't want to. He would fly off the handle on me and my wife for no reason and at complete random. According to this 6th Dan I was supposed to take it and not say word. He compared it to his instructor beating him so badly as I have described and him thanking him for it. Why in the world do you thank somebody for that. Thats not making anyone a better martial artist. I relate that to pure control and almost like slavery. This 6th Dan attitude is that you are subserviant to your sensei for life no matter the circumstances. I feel in my case it was mental abuse and some physical and in the 6th dan's case it is clearly physical with the objective of mental abuse also.

In my dojo students are allowed to question me, not argue but question. I accept this as long as its done respectfully. I will take the time to explain something or admit if I make a mistake. I do it all the time its human nature so I crack a joke about and feel stupid everyone gets a good laugh and we go on. If I ever make it to 10th Dan I swear I will never use it as a power trip. All of you can hold me to that.

I greatly appreciate the input from everyone, it makes it easier knowing that I am making the right choice in no apoligizing.

 

[Flying Crane]

Never. Absolutely not.

There is a difference between training hard, and the pain and strain that goes along with that, and downright sadistic abuse. If you think that line has been crossed, it's time to walk away. It might even be time to file some criminal charges with the police if it is extreme enough, and if he has done some real damage and injury to you.

I trained for a very short time with a sadistic maniac. I was never injured, but he was crazy, and he was emotionally abusive to students. I cleared out of there in a hurry, and encouraged others to do so as well.

My ex-girlfriend studied for a short time with a very famous, old-school kung fu master in San Francisco. One day she had a private lesson with him. Nobody else was at the school with them. During a break in training he felt her up, but tried to disguise it as if he was teaching her something. It really creeped her out and she never went back. I call it the "Dirty Old Sifu Syndrome".

Teachers who do not respect their students, and who abuse them physically and emotionally are dirt. It would be justice if their students all wised-up to this and abandoned these teachers completely.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

My old instructor can't do it physically because he teaches through the school systems and recreation departments. However the mental is clearly there its just a matter of having rock solid proof do anything. Those that he ignored before I left are now top dogs. One kid went from green (yon-kyu) in February to Purple (Ni-Kyu) 2 ranks in 3 months. Then was promised brown by thanksgiving. This poor kid can't hardly remember anything and needed help alot. What a shame because he is a nice kid what a injustice to him.

 

[tshadowchaser]

at times when I started studying under my instructo i came close to leaveing because i felt that he pushe us way to far an abusd u neyound the point of training. Having seen him break a mans nose because the man was a singer and afraaoid of haveing a boken nos change his breathing and pehaps hurt his cai th fist thing my instructor doid was break the nose. Being pounded on till blck and blu was commenin those days.
I look on those days with some regret and yet am so proud of the people who came through it. It was the way my instructor was taught and it weeded out the week and those that wanted a fast belt ranking.
was it ight or wrong ??? I amnot the on to judge for I stayed lets just say it was not the type of raining for everyone.
Those that stay knew what their bodies could take and knew that giving up was not an option for them in a fight and fight they could

 

[Calm Intention]

Brandon,

Whenever someone asks that you give up your own mind for theirs, I think of some of these religious cults that make the news now and then.
I believe this same type of control is practiced in other social realms, and martial arts is not exempt from it.

I've inquired at times about 'accreditation' in the marial arts schools, and it seems(un-less I'm misinformed), that there is none, or is not mandatory.
This means that anyone can have a school and teach what they know.
Just because someone knows an amazing repetoire of techiniques, doesn't make them a Sensei.
I mentioned in another thread here about one or two people I met from a paticular school here in Philadelphia(specializing in joint locks and immobilizations), and these two guys 'like' to test what they know out in the streets. They should have been recognized by their instructor for what they were. I question the integrity of the instructor(I refuse to use the term Sensei in this case), for the lapse/lack of judgement on their part.
My point is that there needs to be accreditation by some kind of council authority, a board of review to judge the integrity and proficiency of someone that will have the 'charge' to teach you how to defend yourself and exercise potentially deadly force- and not turn out monsters to the streets(like the guys I met).
*Remember, nothing currently prevents individuals with socio-pathic tendencies from becoming the head of a dojo.

 

[CuongNhuka]

My philosophy: I get hurt once, accident
I get hurt twice, warn them.
Third time, I'm leaveing. That's if it's in one day
And I expect respect from instructor(s). Not the kind of respect I expect to give them. But the kind were if I get hurt, they make sure I'm o.k. and don't do anything too stupid. An example would be the dirty old sifu syndrome, i.e. Flying Crane.
The same goes for sparring. But at the third time, I blast my opponent as hard as I can, then go back to regular sparring. That technique is a back leg side kick (TKD term). It telegraphs like you wouldn't belief. Think UPS ground, with a tracking number. It always get's blocked, but the message gets sent. You hit me hard in light contact sparring, I WILL hit hard back. But that is off topic.
So now were did this come from? Not to be rude of course, but what happened to make you think of this?

John

 

[Carol]

Brandon your story breaks my heart. Respect is such an important component in Martial Arts, yet this instructor was not showing any respect at all. Getting bruised up is unacceptable. To ask a legally blind person to read 8 point font is absolute cruelty.

You are more of a martial artist than I could ever dream of being. :asian:

In humility and respect,
Carol

 

[CuongNhuka]

And now I've read the thread, and have this to say:
NO HUMAN SHOULD TO ENDURE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would leave, and go somewere else. You are a true martial artist. You are a truely compasionet person who deserves the respect of all. Compared to most I know in the martial arts, you are a god.

John, who now prays to Brandon Fisher, the immortal who holds domain over compassion.

 

[Swordlady]

Never. Absolutely not.

My ex-girlfriend studied for a short time with a very famous, old-school kung fu master in San Francisco. One day she had a private lesson with him. Nobody else was at the school with them. During a break in training he felt her up, but tried to disguise it as if he was teaching her something. It really creeped her out and she never went back. I call it the "Dirty Old Sifu Syndrome".

I'm sorry, but stuff like this really burns me up. There is absolutely NO excuse for anyone in the martial arts to abuse their authority like that. She could have had him busted for sexual harassment, and I have a strong suspicion that she wasn't the first treated in that matter. :flammad:

 

[IcemanSK]

Wild Bill,
You pretty much have summed it up.

Mantis,
Thats what I was hoping you meant. I am the first one to offer to uki for someone higher than me and sometime lower then me.

Ok let me add a little more to this.

I was excused from a organziation that I had spent 21 years and 4 months in based on some documents that I was unable to see. I was born totally blind and was blind until I was 3 years old because of a pitched nerve in my neck. I am legally blind and have had the benefit of the Cleveland Sight Center and the Society for the Blind in Indianapolis. My wife who was born with a rare birth defect that was just recently discovered do to her becoming very dizzy very quickly and at anytime. This to was a source of the problem with this person. I was told by this man that it was not a case that I could not see it but that I didn't want to. So to me that was saying I didn't have a sight problem I was just making it up. Same thing with my wife and dizzyness its a made up thing she is faking. It is just fear.

The reason I used the beating part is because I was told by a 6th dan tang soo do practioner that there is no "no sir" to senior ranks in the martial arts under any circumstances. He was beaten to the point where his whole chest was black from the bruising and also thrown 10 feet across the room by his instructor. The thing that boggles my mind is he thanked the man for it. He believes that makes him a better martial artist and feels as though by me asking my old instructor for help with these documents that he purposely printed in 8pt font that it was my responsibility to fix it. He said because I didn't do that and I asked for help I am not a true martial artist.

Brandon:

The things things you are describing are not "drill sergent-type" hard classes. The things you are describing are the acts of dictators who enjoy belittling people. Like you, I have had a physical limitation since birth. (Mine is a mild case of cerebral palsy). Like you, I've worked hard inspite of it for more than 20 years in MA. But I could no more break a board w/ a spearhand w/ my right than you could change your vision. Because it's not a question of working harder. It sounds like you're being told that it is &/or that you are lying about your limitations. And since when does not asking for help define a "true martial artist?" I hope these men pray that when they get old the don't run into any physical limitations of their own. Cuz it happens to the best of us. You may be the one with the vision problem, but its these 2 gentlemen who are blind. You sound like a man with a lot to offer the MA world (you've added a lot here). Maybe its time you look elsewhere for instructors who understand what being human really is.:asian:

 

[IcemanSK]

My wife (who's not an MA-ist) said your 6th Dan buddy sounds like a battered wife. Taking the beating & thanking him for it?! I think that hits the nail on the head.

 

[Matt]

I have a question for everyone. If you have an instructor whether they are asian or not and no matter how loyal or how long you have been with them. Do you do whatever and I mean whatever they say without question? Do you allow them to beat you to the point your body is black from the severe buising and then get up in the morning and thank them for it?

If you have an instructor who is not sensitive to a health problem even if it was something you have had since birth and they tell you to do something but you physically can’t do you ask them for help?

Things have happened in the past 24 hours that made me think about this and wonder what others thought.

Really, I think you know the answer to this question already.

It does not sound like you are in a healthy school. Why are you training? Does it strike you as funny that you are submitting to abuse in order to learn something to protect you from abuse.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

You know your words even through the web as really touched me. I greatly appreciate all your help, wisdom and advice. With great respect I bow very deeply - Domo Ari Gato Gosimasu

Carol,
Thank you for the email. If you don't mind I am going to share the full story with you. I think just letting me vent will help but your gracious and offer to help is above and beyond.

 

[bluemtn]

I agree with what has been said here- no one should abuse their authourity, and their students and instructors. Stay away from that place, because it's unhealthy. I wish you the best of luck in your future of martial arts.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

Thanks TKD Girl.

 

[Lisa]

Run, don't walk Brandon. Get away as fast as you can and don't look back. There is no honor in what they do and definitely no excuse.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I am gone but now its the bad mouthing of me and my students behind our back thats getting to me.

 

[bluemtn]

I know it's easier said than done, but don't worry about it. You're gone, and so he's upset that he lost students. From the sounds of it, he's not worth the stress, and when people go visit your class they'll see for themselves what kind of school you run. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

How correct you are. But this man takes the smallest most meaningless things and blows them way out of proportion. He even trashed Alan Goldberg until he recieved a phone call from Mr. Goldberg calling him on it.