9/11--Was it an inside job?

[Archangel M]

The point of debating this with these two (AGAIN) is starting to fade. Nothing is being said here that hasn't been said in the other 9/11 threads here. Manu want's to start with the "experts in the field say" strategy again. If you go back to:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85202&highlight=9/11+conspiracy

We discussed that ad nauseam. And again I say "So What?"

 

[Tez3]

Parts of it comes from the observations that a large number of Orthodox Jews were not there that morning. It was in the middle of Selichot. Orthodox Jews were attenting longer than usual morning services.

I guess they must have stopped in the middle of services to detonate all the necessary things that needed detonating then? > shakes head sadly<

It's one of the things that makes me laugh when people blame 'the Jews', they seem to have little understanding of who or what we are. A good many Jews wouldn't have been at service, would have been at work because they, like many Christians only go somewhere like a church or shul when it's a wedding, funeral or a major festival if then even, these and the Ultra Orthodox, the Orthodox, the Liberal, the Reform etc etc are all different so would not sit down and plot to take over the world, they'd be arguing over female rabbis, should men and women sit together etc etc and that's just the relatively non religious arguments.You can't get all groups of Jews to agree on the right of Israel to exist so how would you get them to plot to take over the world, blow up Americans etc?

 

[Tez3]

The point of debating this with these two (AGAIN) is starting to fade. Nothing is being said here that hasn't been said in the other 9/11 threads here. Manu want's to start with the "experts in the field say" strategy again. If you go back to:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85202&highlight=9/11+conspiracy

We discussed that ad nauseam. And again I say "So What?"

Is there a 'season' for these arguments? Perhaps when news is slow or a bit dull it comes up? Or perhaps a full moon?

 

[Big Don]

Is there a 'season' for these arguments? Perhaps when news is slow or a bit dull it comes up? Or perhaps a full moon?

lu·na·cy [loo-nuh-see]


–noun, plural -cies. 1. insanity; mental disorder.

2. intermittent insanity, formerly believed to be related to phases of the moon.

 

[Sensei Payne]

So, what your saying is that you actually live in a country that isn't in the least free, is worse than a Soviet state, you have no control over your government and all the debates and arguments for freedom, rights etc are all just bollocks? Why do you stay there then?

I have no choice, economically and of course to much family to just up root. Of course, I love my country, the people, the places...just because I don't like the leadership doesn't mean I should leave.

So what are all these awful things your governments, with their secret police and shadowy men black have done? Your country hasn't been a country long enough to have such a history, I doubt even the Soviets and the Nazis actually killed thousands and blamed someone else, they killed millions but did it quite blatently.

Paramilitary group called Blackwater. This mercenary group is under no military jurisdiction. Has tortured illegally detained prisoners. Killed innocents in the Middle east in cold blood. The laundry list goes on for miles.

Btw how do you know I wouldn't pick you out as a martial artist? How do you know I couldn't tell you can fight? I'm a pretty good profiler and there are 'tells' for everything. Anyway, why would I assume on meeting you that you couldn't fight, I always assume people can, that way you don't get caught out.

When I tell people that I teach classes, the most common reaction is, "Oh really, you don't seem the type." and I ask, "why do you say that?" and the normal response is. "Your just so easy going and nice." You with your own training may pick up on it, but there are only a few suttle cues that give it away.

Looking at the American Armed Forces I'd assume America could defend it self and fight very well.
Give me a good reason why American would sacrifice Americans in such a thing as 9/11? What cause did it further? A war can declared for almost any reason a country wants so why would it have to kill thousands of its own people to declare war on another country? There was little enough reason to invade Iraq the first time or even the second really, there was no need to blown up Americans up to justify that war.

And thats just it...there was no reason to go either time...the Government had to have a real good reason to get congress and the adverage American to back the cause. They lied to us and told us they had WMDs, when now a classified doc was leaked confirming this. Why else would they want to go to war? Greed and Power. Oil, Black Gold...keep making the rich, richer and the poor, poorer and scared.

I suspect you may have watched too much television.

Not really. I do a lot of reading more than anything...Netflix if I have the time.

 

[Tez3]

I have no choice, economically and of course to much family to just up root. Of course, I love my country, the people, the places...just because I don't like the leadership doesn't mean I should leave.

You are saying all leaderships are the same though. Not Just the one at the time of 9/11 or the one now.



Paramilitary group called Blackwater. This mercenary group is under no military jurisdiction. Has tortured illegally detained prisoners. Killed innocents in the Middle east in cold blood. The laundry list goes on for miles.

All countries do nasty things to their enemies, doesn't mean they blow their own people or allies up, well, not on purpose anyway.



When I tell people that I teach classes, the most common reaction is, "Oh really, you don't seem the type." and I ask, "why do you say that?" and the normal response is. "Your just so easy going and nice." You with your own training may pick up on it, but there are only a few suttle cues that give it away.

I expect they are just being polite. Nothing more boring than other peoples hobbies and activities.



And thats just it...there was no reason to go either time...the Government had to have a real good reason to get congress and the adverage American to back the cause. They lied to us and told us they had WMDs, when now a classified doc was leaked confirming this. Why else would they want to go to war? Greed and Power. Oil, Black Gold...keep making the rich, richer and the poor, poorer and scared.

There's gold in Aghanistan? No, didn't think so, yes it would help the arms industry to have a continuous war but the government can easily lie, they have already, they don't need to kill thousands of Americans to go to war.



Not really. I do a lot of reading more than anything...Netflix if I have the time.

No idea what Netflix is, I'd try books, classics etc

 

[Archangel M]

If you all are REALLY openminded and "do your research". Read the Journal of 9/11 Debunking.

http://www.jod911.com/

I'm betting you don't.

 

[Sukerkin]

That looks an interesting site, Angel. I've not seen it before - I did all my 'listening' (via the Net) to the conspiracy theories a while back and credible 'rebuttal evidence' was thin on the ground back then :tup:.

I shall have a good read and catch up ...

... the No Missile Defences at the Pentagon one caught my eye - if true that really surprises me.

 

[Sensei Payne]

You are saying all leaderships are the same though. Not Just the one at the time of 9/11 or the one now.
I am saying that there are polictical figures that are nothing more than puppets..the existed then and they exist now.
All countries do nasty things to their enemies, doesn't mean they blow their own people or allies up, well, not on purpose anyway.
There have been many cases where the American Government has been caught red handed at killing and enfringing on the rights of its people. For example, the extermination of Native Americans, Detaining "Combatants" without due process and in some situations executing them in closed military tribunals, etc
I expect they are just being polite. Nothing more boring than other peoples hobbies and activities.
Probably
There's gold in Aghanistan? No, didn't think so, yes it would help the arms industry to have a continuous war but the government can easily lie, they have already, they don't need to kill thousands of Americans to go to war.

Black Gold is Oil...and Iraq and Afganistan are satilite points for our military. Basicly putting a gun to the head of the oil distributors. If you had someone elses army in the back yard, waiting for you to mess up, wouldn't you be up tight too? Our two wars that we are fighting have nothing to do with Terrorists or WMDs, or even Freeing a people..all of those things I can get behind. But instead, its for Oil...and in order for the people with Power get the go ahead to go to that war for oil...they needed a noble cause...9/11 was that cause...we were an angry country at that time...we wanted to get those who hurt us back, and quickly. The American people were blind to the true threat, and thats the one within.
No idea what Netflix is, I'd try books, classics etc You should really check it out. www.netflix.com its better than any blockbuster or Redbox anywhere...and if you haven't read "1984" by George Orwell...get on that fast.

 

[Sukerkin]

:chuckles: I don't necessarily disagree with your views on the motivations of the power groups, altho' I am rather of the opinion that there is very little that can be done about it as they are the ones with all the power, money and influence.

One point, I think it is a pretty safe bet that most of us here (non-American's at least) have read "1984" and "Animal Farm".

Many of us have also been around the track a few times and are pretty well educated and well read in general so it is okay to make some assumptions about the level of understanding of politics on this board i.e. we can keep up if the subject dances around a bit .

 

[elder999]

:One point, I think it is a pretty safe bet that most of us here (non-American's at least) have read "1984" and "Animal Farm"..

Both of them were part of the curriculum when I was in 6th grade.

There have been many cases where the American Government has been caught red handed at killing and enfringing on the rights of its people. For example, the extermination of Native Americans, Detaining "Combatants" without due process and in some situations executing them in closed military tribunals, etc

Actually, in the case of the Indians, they were in no way thought of as "American people," or, in many instances, people.

Black Gold is Oil...and Iraq and Afganistan are satilite points for our military. Basicly putting a gun to the head of the oil distributors. If you had someone elses army in the back yard, waiting for you to mess up, wouldn't you be up tight too? Our two wars that we are fighting have nothing to do with Terrorists or WMDs, or even Freeing a people..all of those things I can get behind. But instead, its for Oil...and in order for the people with Power get the go ahead to go to that war for oil...they needed a noble cause...9/11 was that cause...we were an angry country at that time...we wanted to get those who hurt us back, and quickly. The American people were blind to the true threat, and thats the one within.

Sigh.

It is, as usual, more complex than that.I can see your point, but that's the way government works. And yes, if it was in their interests to allow 9/11 to take place, there were those in power who may well have done so-unfortunately, we'll never know, and no amount of speculation or investigation is going to do otherwise for us. Else we'd know all about the JFK assassination, and whether or not FDR allowed Pearl Harbor to take place, and whether or not the Roswell UFO crash was actually a UFO crash, a Soviet misinformation project or a weather balloon. In spite of what many might say to the contrary, people keep secrets, and secrets get kept.

 

[Makalakumu]

This discussion has pretty much resulted in the same as every other discussion on the matter and I don't really have much to add other then some self deprecating humor and good-natured trolling.

I've got one little message for Sensei Payne.

Empire = Murder + Suicide.

The very best thing to do about this is nothing. I've been very foolish over the years getting involved in these debates, getting heated, and attempting to create a movement with other people to try and change things. This is a matter that cannot and will not ever be "revealed" no matter how big the movement gets. It's best to let it go and save the aggravation, or perhaps troll and pretend you're loony because that's way that people in America see Truthers.

Eventually, all of the violence WILL turn on the citizens (again) and the whole system will come crashing down. It always does. Every Empire ends in Totalitarianism and Collapse because of certain economic and political realities that go along with building an Empire. We're no different and the sooner it happens the better. So, don't stand in the way. You just make yourself a target. Let the snake eat it's own tail and make decisions accordingly.

I wish someone would have told me (and that I would have listened) this ten years ago so I wouldn't have wasted so much time, but I'm kind of slow and maybe a little crazy for real, who knows.

In the meantime, check out www.freedomainradio.com. The principles of Empire are combated by the principles of Liberty. The root of this tree of evil is the idea that one group of people can use force to get what they want.

 

[Big Don]

Empire = Murder + Suicide.

No no no. Empire = Star Wars + Lando - Kenobi + Yoda

 

[Tez3]

I do actually know what 'black gold is' and of course I've read Animal Farm, I read it in primary school.

Of course the Iraq wars were for oil, we all knew that when they started. Do you mean there are people who didn't know that?

 

[Sensei Payne]

Of course the Iraq wars were for oil, we all knew that when they started. Do you mean there are people who didn't know that?

Apparently so...but it seems that no one is angry about being lied to about WMDs and the like. If someone asked me to do something, and I found out that it was under false pretenses...I would just drop what I was doing asap...but it doesn't seem that we have done that, and even with the current administration. I know Obama had most recently enacted an exit stratagy, but really its to little to late.

 

[swivel63]

the hijackers weren't mere cave dwellers. most of them were highly educated.

and these "cave dwellers" repelled the red army for almost an entire decade.

 

[Sensei Payne]

the hijackers weren't mere cave dwellers. most of them were highly educated.

and these "cave dwellers" repelled the red army for almost an entire decade.

With our supplies and intel. You make my point stronger toward it being an inside job.

 

[swivel63]

With our supplies and intel. You make my point stronger toward it being an inside job.

just because we helped the muj in the 80s doesn't mean that we helped these terrorist in the 2000s.

 

[Sensei Payne]

just because we helped the muj in the 80s doesn't mean that we helped these terrorist in the 2000s.

The CIA has connection out there. Bin laden was one of them...It is completely plusable that they did help them in the 2000's the same way as the 80s

 

[swivel63]

The CIA has connection out there. Bin laden was one of them...It is completely plusable that they did help them in the 2000's the same way as the 80s

plausible according to whom? we had huntng bin laden since the mid 90s. so he went from sometimey ally to most wanted back to sometimey ally? no.

and the towers weren't taken down by bombs, either.