80%, 90%, 100%

[Kirk]

Knowing a belt at 100%, for the purpose of this thread means
that you are told the tech name, you can quickly spout out what
it's a defense against, and do the tech immediately.

My instructor told us that when you test for a belt, you should
know that belt at 80%. Example .. when you test for yellow,
you should know it at 80%. When you test for orange, you
should know orange at 80%, and now know yellow at 90%.
When you test for purple, it's purple - 80%, orange - 90%, and
yellow - 100%. Your thoughts on this?

 

[Robbo]

In the strictest sense that you put forward....

"Knowing a belt at 100%, for the purpose of this thread means
that you are told the tech name, you can quickly spout out what
it's a defense against, and do the tech immediately. "

I think that it would be wrong to pass a student at a grading that could only do 80% of the mat'l in the way you prescribed above.

Keep in mind that the ability you've expressed is the result of a little practise and memorization. Take it further down the road, would you pass a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and so on degree black belt because they knew 80% of what they were supposed to know?

I think that the only forgivable situation is in the early ranks. Up to green or blue you are in your first 2 years of training and trying to assimilate all this knowledge and turn it into muscle memory, restructuring your mindset and so on. So it may be forgivable at these rankings. But I would say blue and up you have to have your stuff together.

 

[GouRonin]

Are a little slow from all the shots to the melon. I might not remember names but I recognize motion.

:rofl:

 

[Jim M]

All I know is that I was required to know 100% of the material to be awarded the belt. It never occurred to me that it could be otherwise.

Jim

 

[Kirk]

All I know is that I was required to know 100% of the material to be awarded the belt. It never occurred to me that it could be otherwise.

So when you first tested for yellow, the one doing the testing
called out the technique, and you executed it without the
slightest hesitation?

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by Kirk



So when you first tested for yellow, the one doing the testing
called out the technique, and you executed it without the
slightest hesitation?

I think your instructor had a good grasp of the student's understanding process. As the student progresses in ranking they tend to recall more and more of the previous material and are able to even create a variation or 2 of the original techniques learned! This happens from the experience of pondering upon what was previously learned. I teach my students to try for 100% in testing for rank! However, i promote them along the way at 85%. Thus, i teach basically the same promotion methods as your instructor. Orange 95%/Yellow 90%; Advanced Orange 95%,Orange 100%, Yellow 95%; Blue 100%, Adv. Orange,100%,Orange 100% and Yellow 100%! Sincerely, In Humility; Chiduce!

 

[Nate_Hoopes]

Originally posted by Jim M
All I know is that I was required to know 100% of the material to be awarded the belt. It never occurred to me that it could be otherwise.

Jim

I made a couple slips on my orange belt tests, I missed id day 3 variations, I still passed, Its hard to remeber everything perfectly, The one thing i was told never to mess up is the forms, alwyas have those down, when your doing your forms is when they are really anaylizing you.

 

[GouRonin]

I admit to that. I need to get the names etc of everything down more. The ART aspect of it more than the MARTIAL aspect.

That comes from boxing I suppose. You move when being thrown at. Names come later.

That's what I have to work on.

 

[Rainman]

:soapbox:

AK is infinite. I could not place a percentage on the effectiveness of a students knowledge. I allow for 5 to 10 relatively minor mistakes depending on the volume of material they are tested upon. I really look for solid basics and synoptic response times at yellow through purple. Blue up I really start to get into concepts and the like. The criteria with percentages sounds reasonable to me though.

 

[donald]

Originally posted by Jim M
All I know is that I was required to know 100% of the material to be awarded the belt.
It never occurred to me that it could be otherwise.

Jim

Sir,
Are you telling me at yellow/orange you knew, and could execute 100% of the required material at 100%? Ideally every student/instructor wants to do this, but in reality my guess is very few do! I also understand that there are instructor's who do require this without exception, but I would venture to say they don't teach to eat... It is a somewhat sad fact that the crop of students who come in today. For the most part just don't pocess that type of dedication! I think the 80-90-100% requirement expectation is a realistic goal. At least till the student reaches the advanced blue, green belt level. I know if 100% from the get was a pass or fail situation for me. I woulda been one little sad(see failed) wanna be orange belt. As a matter of personal history. I ABSOLUTELY butchered short1. To this day I have no idea what I did, but it was'nt short1! I did ace the written portion though, if I remember correctly!!!!

 

[AvPKenpo]

Gentlemen,
I feel it is important to remember, that knowing the orange list 100% at orange belt level is almost an impossibility. I will be testing for my black this spring, and I know for a fact that I did not know my orange belt 100% when I tested. Yes.... I did know all my material, and I did not miss anything, but I am forever learning from that first list, and I hope to one day soon have it and all the following belts close to 100%.


:soapbox: Remember..... you can learn much more when you listen, but you learn even more when you can teach.... and listen.

Michael
From a Warrior to Scholars.

 

[Kirk]

Let me remind you, my original topic stated:

Knowing a belt at 100%, for the purpose of this thread
means that you are told the tech name, you can quickly spout out
what it's a defense against, and do the tech immediately.

Everytime my instructor teaches me a technique, I learn
something new. I never meant that knowing a belt level at
100% means that there is nothing of that belt level to learn.
To reiterate, I mean an instant knowledge of the tech, by
immediately being able to execute it, without a moment's
hesitation.

 

[AvPKenpo]

Everytime my instructor teaches me a technique, I learn
something new. I never meant that knowing a belt level at
100% means that there is nothing of that belt level to learn.
To reiterate, I mean an instant knowledge of the tech, by
immediately being able to execute it, without a moment's
hesitation. [/B][/QUOTE]


I can completely agree with that. I feel that a student should be able to do the material, do it without hesitation, but I do feel at that level (orange) there can me room for mistakes. As the belts progress and the students are more adept, I feel that there should be no mistakes, if not VERY VERY few.

:boing2:

From a Warrior to Scholars

Michael

 

[Robbo]

I think there is some confusion as to percentages. A student grading should not go to the grading knowing that his instructor will accept 80%. Otherwise why would they try to get 100% of the mat'l down. The average person will always take the path of least resistance. If you teach the student the mat'l, let him know what he is responsible for in the grading then he should prepare himself to know 100% of that mat'l. If nerves or something else come into play during the grading (remember we're really putting these people on a spot during these things) then the grading instructor/board have to be able to determine whether it is due to nerves or due to the fact the student never worked the mat'l in the first place.

 

[GouRonin]

Water takes the path of least resistence and eventually everything gets worn down by it.

Signed:
Mr. Sm@rt@ss.

 

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by Jim M
All I know is that I was required to know 100% of the material to be awarded the belt. It never occurred to me that it could be otherwise.

Jim

You knew the motions but I doubt anyone who does not teach the material knows it 100%.

We have to look at this in a different manner than percentages. At yellow belt you know the material enough to do it on the test competently, At Orange belt you are better at the material from the previous belt and competent at where you are at. and so on until the gradings become farther apart. But to expect perfection from a 1st degree black is ridiculous. Remember it is at Black Belt that the real learn starts.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad
We have to look at this in a different manner than percentages. At yellow belt you know the material enough to do it on the test competently, At Orange belt you are better at the material from the previous belt and competent at where you are at. and so on until the gradings become farther apart. But to expect perfection from a 1st degree black is ridiculous. Remember it is at Black Belt that the real learn starts.

There are days when I wonder if you don't read my mind.

 

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by GouRonin


There are days when I wonder if you don't read my mind.

It has to be a beer think, the hops allow for minor bouts of ESP

 

[Jim M]

Originally posted by Rob_Broad


You knew the motions but I doubt anyone who does not teach the material knows it 100%.

We have to look at this in a different manner than percentages. At yellow belt you know the material enough to do it on the test competently, At Orange belt you are better at the material from the previous belt and competent at where you are at. and so on until the gradings become farther apart. But to expect perfection from a 1st degree black is ridiculous. Remember it is at Black Belt that the real learn starts.

Of course a person testing for black belt has a greater understanding of the yellow belt material than the yellow belt does. However, that's true at every level. Hopefully, the 3rd dan has a greater understanding of the yellow belt material (and executes it at a higher level)than the first dan, who in turn has a greater understanding than those of lower rank.

It's turtles all the way down.

My point was mearly and answer to the question (as Kirk pointed out) and that was that to be awarded each belt it seems to me that the person should have an understanding of each technique, what attack it defends against, and be able to demonstrate it and explain it at a level appropriate for the rank. I certainly don't understand techniques as well as my first instructor did, who did not understand them as well as my second instructor (Joe Palanzo), who in turn did not understand them as well as his instructor (Edmund K. Parker).

If we all needed the understanding that Mr Parker had, we'd all still be white belts.

Jim

 

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by Jim M


Of course a person testing for black belt has a greater understanding of the yellow belt material than the yellow belt does. However, that's true at every level. Hopefully, the 3rd dan has a greater understanding of the yellow belt material (and executes it at a higher level)than the first dan, who in turn has a greater understanding than those of lower rank.

It's turtles all the way down.

My point was mearly and answer to the question (as Kirk pointed out) and that was that to be awarded each belt it seems to me that the person should have an understanding of each technique, what attack it defends against, and be able to demonstrate it and explain it at a level appropriate for the rank. I certainly don't understand techniques as well as my first instructor did, who did not understand them as well as my second instructor (Joe Palanzo), who in turn did not understand them as well as his instructor (Edmund K. Parker).

If we all needed the understanding that Mr Parker had, we'd all still be white belts.

Jim

But the material should not be degrading from one generation to the next either. Your analogy sounds like making bad videos. Copying a copy of a copy of a copy......