15 Things You Should Know About "The Race"

[Sukerkin]

That is sadly true, ToD.

With that kind of imbalance of information-environment, the 'positive' message must carry a taint of 'propoganda' to those in such circumstances.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Nope, not happening, dont believe it, cant make me believe it.

What "priviledges" do I enjoy?

I have been poor my entire life. I was born poor and I am still poor. I havnt had a college graduate in my family YET. on Either side.I have never owned a new car.

My high school had "beat up a white boy day", so it wasnt a rich school by any means, but I graduated, went to the military, and learned a trade.

TODAY, no one (the possible exception of the American Indians) has anything stacked against them but their own ambition, or thier own lack of ambition.

Oprah and Condi are perfect examples.

both born poor, but both are world famous. One arguably the most powerfull woman on the planet. All because of hard work.

this "the deck is stacked against me' crap gets really old when it is so clearly not true.

hard work, not hand outs are the answer, and if some people are not capable of hard work, or not willing to work hard, that isnt my problem. And I will be damned if I will feel guilty about thier failure to make something out of themselves. Regardless of color, or creed or belief.

Andrew,
that is a great example. But here is the problem.

It isnt true anymore.

Plus, and again, hate to resort to logic, but you cannot, by definition, give someone an advantage without putting someone else at a disadvantage, and when you put someone at a disadvanatage due to race, it is not only immoral, it is illegal.

We need to correct a problem, not tell people to get over it; because, they don't.
Sean

 

[Touch Of Death]

I'm sorry to hear that a well-dressed African American can't walk through a department store without getting followed (not sarcastic, I really think that sucks).

.

It does suck; because, it is for this reason the prisons are full of minorities when logic dictates that whites commit the most crime (more people more crime).
Sean

 

[Archangel M]

That is sadly true, ToD.

With that kind of imbalance of information-environment, the 'positive' message must carry a taint of 'propoganda' to those in such circumstances.

You are right. Ive come to believe that in this life we tend to make what we believe into reality more than not. If you want blame someone else for you lack of success then you get the reality you make for yourself. Or you can believe that things can change for the better and take action to make it so.

My Italian ancestors were outright persecuted back in the early 1900's. They just kept on working and believing in the "American Dream". And the world turned.

 

[Archangel M]

It does suck; because, it is for this reason the prisons are full of minorities when logic dictates that whites commit the most crime (more people more crime).
Sean

It also sucks that most of the VICTIMS of those prisoners were black. Tell them its unfair that the people who victimized them are in prison.

 

[zDom]

Here's a positive note:

A recent news story I did was on the first Sikeston resident to file for a New Madrid County county commissioner position.

(Sikeston straddles two counties: Scott County and New Madrid County).

Turns out, he is ALSO the first African American to file for a county office in New Madrid County.

Here's the good part: he called me later in the day and said, "Let's just not include that stuff about being the first African American to file for a county office, Okay?"

I was happy to delete that part and, in that moment, he earned even more of my respect and probably my vote.

THAT is what I'm talking about.

 

[Ray]

You're actually missing the point. The problem isn't "everyone in the poor is a Minority, and everyone in the Rich is White". the problem is staring you in the face. Who was our last Black President? Of all the people in the US who are on the Forbes 400, how many are hispanic? How many Middle Eastern Senators are there in Congress? The deck is stacked not because of an absolute border, but because of people of power (economicly/socially and politicly) are disproportionally white. White people are getting close to being a minority, but are still the ones who control (overall) the most amount of power.

You're actually missing the point: you lumped all of us "whites" together in your statement (that I replied too).

BTW: In discussions of this type "minority" doesn't refer to the quantity of people, it refers to the denied civil rights of some group. As in "minor" being someone who is under "legal age."

At this point in American society, I have to believe that the deck is stacked against people who are poor and live in deprived neighborhoods...unfortunately a large percentage of those people are there because their progenitors were there and they are non-white. I have no studies or other data to back that up. I believe that today people of all races have a better, fairer shot at succeeding.

I admit I have noticed more racism in smaller, remote areas than in large metropolitan area.

 

[Archangel M]

An interesting article about race. Written by an African American too I should add.

Five: Because black men are disproportionately incarcerated, racism reigns eternal. This belief assumes that blacks do not commit crimes any more frequently than whites. But if black men make up almost 50 percent of the prison population, they committed roughly 42 percent of violent crimes in the 1990s, and many studies have shown that, when severity of crime and past record are taken into account, there is no bias against blacks in the criminal justice system. At its inception, the War on Drugs, often interpreted as a “War on Blacks,” had the strong support of the Congressional Black Caucus, whose members aimed to stem inner-city violence. If these black officials, who at the time exhorted Congress to “save our communities,” were racists, then the definition of this term is beyond my comprehension.

And as I have stated before, the vast majority of the victims were African American as well.

Let’s start with the idea that cops over-arrest blacks and ignore white criminals. In fact, the race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data. As long ago as 1978, a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found that the race of assailants in victim identifications and in arrests matched—a finding replicated many times since, across a range of crimes. No one has ever come up with a plausible argument as to why crime victims would be biased in their reports.

Another point. Our crime dropped to a 30 year low in the late 90's-early 2000's As our incarceration levels peaked. Hmmmmm....

 

[Touch Of Death]

It also sucks that most of the VICTIMS of those prisoners were black. Tell them its unfair that the people who victimized them are in prison.

The system created that. By this logic white victims don't get justice. We are too busy arresting black people; because, they stand out in a crowd. What is unfair about that is black youths are branded as criminals from day one and white youths get to grow out of it.
Sean

 

[Empty Hands]

Just for the sake of discussion, why can you say the "C word" but we can't use the "N word"?

:lfao: Oh my, you think I'm black don't you?

 

[Touch Of Death]

An interesting article about race. Written by an African American too I should add.



And as I have stated before, the vast majority of the victims were African American as well.

Let’s start with the idea that cops over-arrest blacks and ignore white criminals. In fact, the race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data. As long ago as 1978, a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found that the race of assailants in victim identifications and in arrests matched—a finding replicated many times since, across a range of crimes. No one has ever come up with a plausible argument as to why crime victims would be biased in their reports.

Another point. Our crime dropped to a 30 year low in the late 90's-early 2000's As our incarceration levels peaked. Hmmmmm....

You keep pointing out that Blacks are the victims here. Of course they are they live next to the criminals. "Covet thy neighbor"...
Sean

 

[Archangel M]

The people who report being victimized apparently routinely say it was a black person who committed the crime (see above post). The cops dont make up rape, robbery and assault arrests. A victim calls.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The people who report being victimized apparently routinely say it was a black person who committed the crime (see above post). The cops dont make up rape, robbery and assault arrests. A victim calls.

And?

 

[Archangel M]

Where are all the white robbers, and violent criminals that are getting away with it?

 

[Sukerkin]

:lfao: Oh my, you think I'm black don't you?

No mate. Noone thinks that. I believe the reference was being made to a general imbalance in the use of inappropriate language.

 

[Twin Fist]

I knew this was gonna come to the whole "blacks in prison" thing.

Everyone knows the truth, no one wants to say it.

 

[Twin Fist]

It does suck; because, it is for this reason the prisons are full of minorities when logic dictates that whites commit the most crime (more people more crime).
Sean

if the two groups comitted crimes at the same rate, this would be true

 

[jks9199]

You claimed that systemic discrimination against blacks doesn't exist anymore. It is not racist to suggest that you have no means of knowing that considering you aren't one of the people who would tend to be affected by it and thus notice it. If I claim that discrimination against women doesn't exist, it isn't sexist to point out that I am a man and wouldn't really know.

By your reasoning here, there is no hope for a solution. I have no way to know, and no way to understand, or recognize a problem unless I may directly experience it. I cannot help a person who has been raped, since I have not been raped. I cannot recognize that a woman may have faced different challenges than I have, since I'm male. How pessimistic and dreary and selfish a view that is... "You can't possibly understand 'cause you're not..."

You are right. Ive come to believe that in this life we tend to make what we believe into reality more than not. If you want blame someone else for you lack of success then you get the reality you make for yourself. Or you can believe that things can change for the better and take action to make it so.

My Italian ancestors were outright persecuted back in the early 1900's. They just kept on working and believing in the "American Dream". And the world turned.

I think this is a very important key. One thing that I have noticed in discussing this sort of issue with people is that, very often, people choose to only perceive events through a particular lens. No matter if there might be alternative explanations -- once they've bought into that lens or that identification, that's the reason. In truth, things are seldom that easy.

(By the way... there was once a time when a black man would have been hired long before my Irish immigrant ancestors...)

Bill Cosby is all well and good but the purpose of affirmative action is to improve the attitude of the black community. Telling a group of children in school how great the police are or how awesome their teachers are for that matter will make no real difference if they are being taught the opposite in the home.
Sean

In a paragraph, I describe an actual AFFIRMATIVE action program, rather than an approach that essentially says "you aren't quite equal, so we'll give you a bit of an advantage." True; I didn't address every element, and most definitely, reaching more deeply into the home life and popular perception is needed. Perhaps you noted that I said it was definitely NOT a quick and easy solution? Perhaps you have something else to offer?

The system created that. By this logic white victims don't get justice. We are too busy arresting black people; because, they stand out in a crowd. What is unfair about that is black youths are branded as criminals from day one and white youths get to grow out of it.
Sean

Again -- this is much to simplistic. Is the predominance of minority members charged and convicted of offenses an artifact of bias in policing, or in the the judicial system, or is it something else? There's a lot to examine; enough for several people to have already achieved doctorates providing unique thesis papers on the subject -- and reaching drastically different conclusions! The fact is that most crime is NOT interracial; it's committed by members of the same race upon each other. There are, I'm sure many reasons for this, and I'm not even going to try to guess at more than the simplest: proximity.

Is it black youths that are branded -- or is it those who cannot afford an attorney?

 

[Ahriman]

I think I didn't see an important point here (or maybe I was simply too tired to notice). I will write it from the Hungarian perspective, so if this problem isn't present around there, all the better.
...
Here we have gypsies as a huge minority. They get an insane amount of support - I call it insane as a family of four, both parents unemployed, earn as much as or even more than a university teacher, not to mention a dozen of other things. Now, what's the problem with this, not counting the amount of money wasted on unworthy walking flesh? (unworthy, yes. They have the chance to work, but I'll cover it later) Well, it's that it turns "people with no prejudice" into "people with slight prejudice", "people with slight prejudice" into "racists", and "racists" into "violent racists-neonazis". Unfortunately the latter group grows slowly but surely, and as things are now, there will be a Hungarian civil war in the next few decades (and I'm optimistic, we almost had one in 2006, luckily they weren't well-organized).
I said I'll cover the chances to work - with it, I'll say one thing about criminal activity. There's a gypsy judge around Zalaegerszeg. She's a woman and she finished her schools before '90 (before '90 we had a socialist dictatorship disguised as democracy, highly intolerant with gypsies, highly unsupporting women's education) and - she puts the higher percentage of gypsies into prison. Because she could achieve what she achieved under far more harsh circumstances, and because she knows that against her judgement no one can play the "race card".
...
And one more "story", where I'll include a bit of Hungarian language so you can understand it better. Both "roma" and "cigány" translates to gypsy, "roma" is more PC, "cigány" is more racist. I have some "roma" friends, who look absolutely the same as the rest of their ethnic group and they have grown up poor, getting all the discrimination their ethnic group gets. Yet they hate "cigány"s as they feel that all the hard-working "roma"s get labeled as "cigány"s because of the, well, "cigány"s. Oh, and they and their families chose to work, refusing all damned governmental support. They have their houses, cars and education.

 

[Sukerkin]

That is an important point, Ahriman. It was one that I had intended to make clearer with my comments about the BNP. The sliding 'scale' that you linked up makes it abundantly clear how destabalising these things can be if left unchecked.