1 stick or 2......

Discussion in 'Filipino Martial Arts - General' started by Bammx2, Jul 13, 2005.

  1. Bammx2

    Bammx2 2nd Black Belt

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    Question.....
    It has been brought to my attention recently that some FMA's concentrate more on single stick than double and vice-versa.
    Is there any styles that actually do this?

    And personally,
    Which do you concentrate on....
    single,
    double,
    or
    both...??

    I do both to keep up on the ambidexterity....and just in case I get attacked by 2 people at once....
    Then I got a stick fer each of'um[​IMG]
     
  2. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    In one of the arts I train in, Balintawak, it concentrates on single stick. It optimizes the use of the left hand for managing, monitoring, and delaying your opponents stick. So the training both sides is there, just in different manners. When one feels comfortable enough with the one side you can change to the off side and then bring that side up in the training level as well. To object of optimizing the single side or the strong side with just the single stick, is that this is the way one will most likely fight anyways.


    :asian:
     
  3. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    I concentrate on single stick because it's what interests me, and also because it seems more practical. But, we do do some double stick in Modern Arnis.
     
  4. Christopher Umbs

    Christopher Umbs Yellow Belt

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    Single, for pretty much the same reasons that Rich Parsons said. I'm doubtful how much force most people could get out of their off side while they were also striking with the primary. I'd rather be able to jam and control.
     
  5. CMS

    CMS Yellow Belt

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    I haven't noticed any emphasis on one stick over two. We seem to spend equal amounts of time on single stick, double stick, and stick and dagger. We also spend quite a bit of time on knife, double knife and empty hands. We do Pekitia Tersia and Inonsanto blend including Panantukan. I don't see any reason to prefer one over the other. They're all good.
     
  6. bart

    bart Brown Belt

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    IMHO double stick training is integral in the art. It trains both arms and gives an even workout. Double stick training is a key to understanding and implementing empty hand applications as well, because you are employing two weapons of equal length. Among other reasons to practice double sticks are muscular symmetry, endurance, and ambidexterity. It also really helps develop power on the secondary arm. One of my favorite types of double stick work involves having each arm do different things in combination with each other, such as a downward figure 8 on one side and an arko arko on the other for example. Having one side thrust while the other side strikes, both using different patterns is also good training.

    As far as striking at the same time, that's not the focus of our double stick training. Mostly we train one as the primary and the other as a secondary in any given instant. But even then, striking from the secondary hand can still generate a large amount, if not an equal amount, of power.
     
  7. Rich Parsons

    Rich Parsons A Student of Martial Arts

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    Bart et al,

    In the other art I study, Modern Arnis, the complement between double stick, and stick and dagger and empty hand is there. As well as the single stick.

    I see the advantages for development with the use of the second hand. I also see the what the concentration of the use of a single weapon. Now like I said, the left is always moving, it is doing much more complicated maneuvers then the striking right hand. So the development of left and right is also there, and also works with empty hand if you see the translations.

    They are just two different paths, is how I see them.

    :asian:
     
  8. leomel pino

    leomel pino Yellow Belt

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    using a single stick is an effective way on defending agianst double stick attacks.
     
  9. bart

    bart Brown Belt

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    Range would play into that too right? If you are at long range and keep yourself there, then having two weapons would be an advantage. Potentially you could pull of some double damage but always you would have the double threat when wielding double weaponry.
     
  10. K Williams

    K Williams Blue Belt

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    We train with both single and double, but I prefer single stick for the same reasons mentioned above: the use of the live hand.
     
  11. Brian R. VanCise

    Brian R. VanCise MT Moderator Staff Member

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    We practice both as well with about equal emphasis! Probably though if
    one is caught in a self defense situation you will generally only have one
    stick, stick like tool or knife to work with! However, I have rarely seen
    a person sparring live (rattan with only fencing helmet and elbow and knee
    pads) fare well against someone armed with two sticks! It does happen, but
    certainly the person armed with two has an advantage in the hitting aspect!
    If you were to have two bolo's I imagine that you would be very formidably
    armed vs. someone with just one bolo! (twice the opportunity to cut) Back to the sparring, when armed with only one against two I genrally try and close the distance, trap one stick bearing arm and then finish with butting techniques. It is just hard to due this with two sticks coming at you, particularly if the other person has skill! It is funny though, because when armed with two sticks, I would rather control the distance and pick apart my opponent but I have entered and trapped their stick bearing arm with the butt of my stick and proceeded to butt them repeatedly! Same exact pattern, used both with one stick or with two! Seems to me that they complement each other very nicely!

    Brian R. VanCise
     
  12. John J

    John J Green Belt

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    The need to utilize 2 weapons simultaneously in a real life situation is highly unlikely and probably not the most functional or better yet, logical way to go (others might disagree).

    However, Sinawali as Bart put it is an integral part of training. As training tools to develop ambidexterity, coordination, balance and flow, be it with weapons or empty-hands, it is great! The order we follow is double-stick, single stick (both sides), knife (both sides) and stick & knife. This direction seems to offer the best progress with students. Master Galang told me that Sinawali is the prelude to Espada y Daga. And with the order of training, I see why. By the time you begin Espada y Daga, you have not only developed the attributes referenced above but have a greater understanding of utilizing and controlling range.

    Power is easily retained in double-stick fighting if you do not focus necessarily on the so-called flowing attacks, patterns, combinations etc. Rather, "the single stick of double-stick" (future video title hehe :) ). In other words, the attributes best gained from Sinawali is the ability to use right or left hand equally. A simple example is to set up with your primary hand (in a right lead, the right hand) and deliver a powershot with a switch lead/hand.

    Although I now focus on single-stick, this has always been my train of thought and strategy when fighting double.

    Yours in the Arts,

    Guro John G. Jacobo
    www.swacom.com
     
  13. arnisandyz

    arnisandyz Master Black Belt

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    I'd rather start with 2 and try to keep it at long range. If it gets closer in you can always drop or projectile one stick or the other to facilitate the live hand. On 2 stick vs 1 stick sparring if the 2 stick person knows his range, distancing and footwork its going to be difficult fot the 1 stick person to close to even use that live hand. Once he gets inside though, the manuverablity and tactile advantage of the live hand gives you an effective short range tool. Its more like espada y daga or latigo y daga with a short range weapon backs up a long range weapon. If you have 2 whips and know how to use them to keep the opponent at bay than its effective. if the opponent slips inside the range it would probably be more effective to have a knife instead of a second whip.
     
  14. lhommedieu

    lhommedieu Black Belt

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    I've learned to use double stick in two ways:

    1. Train both sides equally and use footwork and weight-shift to bring power shots (from either side) to bare upon the opponent.

    2. Use a stong side and a weak side, in which the strong side does most of the work and the weak side is used at an opportune moment (this could also be considered a variation on the "one side does one thing, the other side does another thing" method of dos armas). This style of fighting with double sticks might also be used by an espada y daga practitioner who wants a method for using dos armas that is consistant with his/her use of espada y daga (and does not want to train differently with another set of weapons).

    ***

    With respect to the issue of getting power off the rear leg side: if one stays relatively "bacK" on the leg then it is true that it is difficult to generate power, but if one shifts weight forward and rotates the rear hip forward (similar to the way that one would throw a karate reverse punch), then it is easier to generate power off the rear leg side.

    Best,

    Steve Lamade
     
  15. FMA_Brian

    FMA_Brian Guest

    I like to train double stick for it's empty hand bennefits. Double stick improves the coordination between you dominant side and weak side. Also your body mechanics are improved by weapon work. I 100% believe that my boxing and kickboxing has gotten smoother, more powerful and w/ better flow from single and double stick/weapon. This being said while two weapons may never happen in real life, unless you're an amputee you always have multiple weapons and the ability to flow between them is to your benefit.

    my two cents

    -Brian
     
  16. RedBagani

    RedBagani Guest

    2 sticks are better than 1
     
  17. The 14th Style

    The 14th Style Orange Belt

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    Could not have explained it any better!
    I have trained in mostly Serrada, where the focus is on single stick as I understand it.
    But my teacher had us do quite a bit of Sinawali also. I really enjoyed it.
    And if nothing else, Sinawali disarms are fun. At least during training! :uhyeah:
     
  18. guromkb

    guromkb Guest

    I train and teach doble baston but to be honest I prefer single stick and if I have to put something in my left hand I would prefer a nice sharp K-Bar...It's all good though! Just train...
     
  19. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    I train with 2, but I prefer 1.

    :asian:
     
  20. Datu Tim Hartman

    Datu Tim Hartman Senior Master

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    I train with 2, but I prefer 1.

    :whip: :jedi1: :duel: :enguard: :jediduel:
     

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