To Win or Not to Lose?

[marvin8]

Unlimited technique is too much technique. English has only 26 letters, and even that's more than we need to spell any word or communicate most any thought. It's how those letters are combined that counts. Most styles have enough moves to handle most any situation - if they are well executed and put together well with good timing.

English has at least 150K words using those 26 letters, but even educated speakers use only 1/4 of them. How many profound books have been written using just those? Quality over quantity.

However, unlimited includes “not too much.” Therefore, unlimited technique is not “too much.”

A dozen strikes, a score of kicks, another score of blocks/parries, and another score grabbing/immobilization moves yields thousands of two move combinations, and even more three move combos (someone out there can do the math). Then factor in a few takedowns and various tactics and footwork, and one has the tools to respond to most any attack. A good karate-ka has an enormous number of potential "words" to draw upon. No need to go outside the system for even more moves.

The Machidas, TMAists, found a need to change some things in karate for fighting.

What's "unlimited" is the exact way the techniques are applied and this to a large degree is a function of the individual, not the style. But even kata provides a "liberating perspective" as shown in this quote from my earlier post:

isshinryuronin said:
"If one practices kata correctly, it will serve as a foundation for performing any of the infinite number of variations."

Maybe traditional karate is the original "formless form" and "unlimited technique" MA.

"Unlimited" can be applied to practical limitations or boundaries, while "infinite" describes something that extends endlessly in a conceptual or mathematical sense. So, infinite can be too much and your statements may be contradictory.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

JKD and MMA do not limit their techniques to any style(s). They absorb any technique that is useful.

But the JKD guy and MMA guy has to train technique first.

Here is my simple question. If you have never trained

- left arm head lock, when a left arm head lock opportunity appears, will you take it?
- flying side kick, will you suddenly deliver a flying side kick just because the opportunity is there?

 

[isshinryuronin]

The Machidas, TMAists, found a need to change some things in karate for [fighting]

...winning within the rule set of sport MMA against other similarly trained elite professionals. When something is re-purposed, modifications are often needed.

 

[Fungus]

I very strongly try to personalize and train what works for me, meaning my body, my strenght and limiatations. I do not see as a "goal" to get as close to some kyokushin ideal as possible. My heart with kyokushin lines in spirit of not giving up, delivering effect on opponen rather than beeing stylish.

I train the techniques to build the toolbox, but ech technique is tweaked for suit me. Even our instructors say that everyone does the same technique slighlty different, and that is because our contexts are different. To NOT adapt the techniques to ourselves would be stupid I think. Style standards only serves as a starting point for learning and then i trust the process.

I feel I learn more from sparring, in how to put things together. And in particular how I need to change my style depending on the opponent. Until recently I had trouble with getting howto to handle taller opponents in punching range, as they have taller arms (more reach) and the arms come from an upper angle. Just by accident I notice that instead of soto uke, I effectively do elbo strikes either on incoming fist or arme, and that is better when the opponent is taller. It's all these small things that has littel todo with techqnique but application of technique in the moment.

To attain fluidity and improvsation in fighting is sort of my goal, where i will probably train a subset of tweaked techniques more than other things. Wether this is off from visual style standards really doesn't matter to me.

The original question is like analogous to the philosophical question Is beeing right or not beeing wrong more important? For me, neither is fundamental, what is for me most important is coming up with the rational defendable actions. If that leads to success or failure followed by learning or fatal outcome, is not something we know in advance as the future is always uncertain no matter what.

 

[JowGaWolf]

...winning within the rule set of sport MMA against other similarly trained elite professionals. When something is re-purposed, modifications are often needed.

This is my observation. "You" below is general. This comment reminds my that people rarely dig deep into this question "Why do we do things the way we do."

I don't know why it's so difficult for people to understand the chamber. I don't even know why I haven't mentioned this in many years. Low chambers are often used to do the following.
1. To appear open when you are not
2. To hide your punch
3. To invite a punch.

This is even shown in Kata.
1. Posture invites Punch. In TMA it is understood that you are open. No matter what TMA system a person trains. The next move is to address the incoming strike.
2. Punch is hidden. In in Jow Ga we hide punches in similar ways, either close to the body like this or extended, but the concept is the same. "Use your body to hide your attack."
3. Most people will say that you are open. The truth is that you are only open if you do not follow #1 Mose people in this position do not address this issue. From this posture the person should be looking and expecting an incoming strike.

Take note of the time stamp
1. Rising arm deals with the incoming strike.
2. Hiidden punch is ready for a strike or to fill in the open space just like the Rising Arm. In this Kata. It's followed by a strike. The Rising Arm should be used to do 2 things: First deals with an incoming strike. Second Distract your opponent's vision. When I used this technique in the past. I would use is more as an offensive method. Rising Block towards my opponents face. My forearm Rises towards my opponent's nose. If my opponent doesn't move then my forearm will strike under my opponent's nose. If a punch comes in, then the Rising Arm will interfer with the punch. If I'm too early with the rising arm then the strike will land under his nose. If the Rising arm misses then it's because my opponent is now using his time and effort to avoid the forearm strike, instead of using the time to attack me. For me this is a close range technique and not one that is used at the end of a punch like it's often trained.

Here the opponent flees to avoied the strike to the face. If the opponent stirkes then there are two options from here. Use the lower chambered hand to address the strike or to throw the punch. If the punch is not there, then you'll need to recover either by dealing with a movement that protects against and incoming strike or a movement that will prevent your opponent from throwing a counter.

Here's the standing kung fu version of this concept.

Through out the Kata we can see that the pattern of having a chambered fist is followed up with a motion to deal with an incoming strike. If people use kata this way then the application should feel like it's straight out of Kata. Everything related to this concept in the kata is something that I should be able to pull off in application even though I'm not a black belt. The concept is that solid.

As for the other stuff that the Machidas stated. Like the wide blocking / striking movements. The reasons why Kata trains this because "A strike is a block, A block is a strike." The Machidas fail to understand this here. In kung Fu we have this same motion and it's a basic hammerfist. That same striking motion can be used at various ranges. But using it from the distance shown here teaches "Collapsing Power" which is needed in order to do this motion a shorter range like they showed. In the video, it appears that they have not developed collapsing power, because to them this technique is only a block. Ad they trained this method with as a strike then they would have been able to easily demonstrate it even if it's used as a block. Once collapsing power is developed it follows like a bad habit and becomes normal even as breathing. Even when I just block people say their arm hurts even if I'm not trying to strike their arm. It's like hot water. It burns regardless of the amount of water flowing.

But people don't dive as deep into the techniques as they should so we always end up with some video clip of "Making something works."

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