Tightening Standards

[Seig]

As most of us in this group are either instructors or on our way to becomming so, I have decided to pose some questions that I think it would be interesting to discuss. Bear in mind, 9 3/4 out of ten times, before I ask in here, I have already asked Mr. C.


The topic is this:
We all have or have had students that are just absolutely terrible. They try, they listen, but they just don't quite get it. At what point do you, as the instructor say, "Screw it, they are now a orange (insert other color) belt for life" or "Well, they mostly have it, time to pass them based on effort, they can always clean it up later"


Input?

 

[OZman]

There will always be students that are not really good at the physicalities of Kenpo, or they seem to have their elevator stuck at the mezzanine floor. But they come they try and they keep on keeping on.

That being said...it's your school, do what you feel is best for the student.

However; my experience has been, every time my compassion has gotten the better of me; and I have given in; my compassion has boomeranged on me and bit me hard right on the butt.

Having learned from that, in my school if you (the student) can't do the stuff then the student and I sit and discuss their options.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Well guys..... Mike an excellent question and Sean, and excellent response. This is a great question for men of your rank and position...... I salute you on the discussion and opinions. This is the kind of discussion that I think Black Belts should have!!

As to the issue.... the key word Sean said was "TRY" if the student is (in your opinion of course ~ because YOU will be held accountable to me for quality....) truly trying his/her best... then we must examine the term PROGRESS FOR THEM, not in comparison to anyone else, but themselves.

Difficult sometimes when related to Organization Standardization, I realize, but it must be a consideration none the less. Here is where there is what we call a "judgment call"........ LOL this is only experienced through time, trial and error as Sean has outlined....... I have experienced the same....

All I can say is that every time I test anyone...... I consider many factors... it is these factors that we need to discuss and experience to fully develop into a truly good Instructor that can make the correct call on any given student...... "to proceed"...... or "to stay put" and get better no matter what the cost or sacrifice at the time.

Keep in mind ..... no matter what your decision is in the end..... YOU GUYS {and you will drag ME along with you} will have to travel the road WITH [and you thought you understood what the word/principle meant didn't you .... LOL] the student because YOU are the teacher, it is OUR responsibility to walk the path with them until they develop, so listen to me, and upgrade your teaching skills as well as your physical and intellectual skills because many are depending on US!!!!!!!!!!

I want you all to remember this: "Each of US needs ALL of US"

Your teacher and friend...
DC

 

[Ronin]

Hello Again Master..... I have returned to Martial Talk....salute

 

[OZman]

So, was that the end of the discussion?...man are we getting old. No fight left in any of us.

 

[Goldendragon7]

So, was that the end of the discussion?...man are we getting old. No fight left in any of us.

Well, I guess if the topic was covered or answered well, it could end the discussion....... but hecks, you are free to continue to add, question, or extend the topic........ what says 'ye?

:duel:

 

[Seig]

There will always be students that are not really good at the physicalities of Kenpo, or they seem to have their elevator stuck at the mezzanine floor. But they come they try and they keep on keeping on.

That being said...it's your school, do what you feel is best for the student.

However; my experience has been, every time my compassion has gotten the better of me; and I have given in; my compassion has boomeranged on me and bit me hard right on the butt.

Having learned from that, in my school if you (the student) can't do the stuff then the student and I sit and discuss their options.

What are those options? Do you tell a paying student, "Sorry, You can't hack it, I know a great TKD school"?

 

[auzziegreg59]

MrC. an IKKO members apologies for not posting as the building of our new gym has kept me extremely busy.This problem faces us in Australia as well, what we do here is establish what the problem is ,whether it is motor co-ordination, lack of education or communication skills on the part of the said student.If the student cannot get their head around a drill ,technique or form it is primarily broken down to its most simplest components, if the problem still exists the student is placed with an advanced student during class to have the problem addressed on a one to one basis.Usually after 2 weeks it is resolved and on odd occasions it isnt so the next step is to allocate the student unlimited class time which is 18 classes per week with various age groups an rank levels,during this time we have some serious one on one sessions to help the student through their problem.This is how we approach this problem and it works well.Confidence is always instilled and we as instructors will reap the rewards.If you allow a student to slip through a grade this may come back and bite you and on the other hand awarding a grade may allow a student to grow into that belt giving a sense of achievement and new found confidence. Just my views ,hope it helped. Greg

 

[OZman]

Greg..G'day I was impressed with your excellant post, it shows a lot of character that you are willing to go so far for a student; many would not.

I think the point for discussion here is what we do when students are unable to perform the material to a desired level of proficiency. Do we continue to pass a "paying" student even when they are not at the level necessary?

 

[OZman]

Sorry to do this in two seperate posts, but to answer th question asked by Seig, If the student can't perform the material to the required level after all our help, then they don't pass the test. Eventually through natural autrician they will cease to train with us. I see this as a natural thing, not everyone is capable of being a Neuro-surgeon.

 

[auzziegreg59]

Exactly right, natural attrition is an instructors key to not making any non appropriate decisions,viewed only by a third party so to speak.Bone heads are everywhere and they tend to retard the progression of the switched on students. It is my firm beleif that every one deserves a chance and in the under belts we as professional instructors may allow a student to slide once at the yellow or orange belt level and Im talking junior an intermediate ranks only, in the adult syllabus either you know it or you dont its that simple, this is why the attrition factor works so well. Regards Greg..

 

[Seig]

Sean,

On a personal level, I agree with you. On a professional level, I have to disagree with you. Look at it this way, someone has to pay the light bill, if not students, then you. You and I have both been bitten in the *** by bad business deals. I will be paying off mine for another year or so.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Sean,
On a personal level, I agree with you. On a professional level, I have to disagree with you. Look at it this way, someone has to pay the light bill, if not students, then you. You and I have both been bitten in the *** by bad business deals. I will be paying off mine for another year or so.

Oh My............ I think I'm gonna have to develop a special "Instructors Room" for only INSTRUCTORS. lol:ultracool

I'm not sure I want all the lower ranks to hear this.... LOL

Ok, here is my views.......

I agree with all of you in part......... keep in mind... the main issue is the development and the advancement of the student, and ... that NOT ALL students develop equally or during the NORM amount of time. Financial issues are of course present [I realize] no matter what, but we should not be a slave to them. I would rather put the focus on the methods of teaching the students {especially the ones that are or have challenges} out of the norm. This will force you to become not only a teacher (you already are that now......) but an extraordinary Instructor that can reach not only the normal student.... but increase your range of reach ~ to many others that are not so easy to instruct. This is the challenge as a Professional IKKO Instructor {in my opinion}. We ARE an extraordinary [or on the road to become such]!

I personally am NOT an easy promoter... yet I do have a plan in mind for each of my students... during my 33 years invested in this wonderful Art of ours, I have had the great opportunity to travel the globe and "sit in" on hundreds of tests with some of the greatest instructors that have ever lived. I have heard their opinions and reasons for the promotions or lack of promotion and was able to discuss the "why's" of their views. This knowledge is what I wish to pass on to everyone so that you will eventually be able to decide for yourselves, as I have learned (with much review, reasoning, and of course logic) the proper time, place and why's to either promote, not promote or even demote if necessary.

I have had some make it to Yellow Belt in 2 weeks..... {of course this is dependent on many factors......} the initial skill of the individual, the amount of time he/she invested, personal desire, following directions, practice time and class time invested...... etc. etc. Yet I have had others that have stayed for months and still not made Yellow!!!:idunno: of course these also were dependent on the opposite conditions..... not coming to class, not following directions, not practicing as instructed, etc. etc.

This is a great topic, however one that takes much MUCH MUCH time, discussion and working together thru many tests so that you can gather my opinions on the topic with each individual that we look at. That is why I prefer to not have any of you promote any students without me until I have the opportunity to work with you and test a few people [initially] so that we can establish a good standard and discuss the variables and options that are MANY to this topic. This is one way to "raise the bar" and to help maintain a good standard ..... yet still have levity within the promotions that was, is and will be needed. Eventually, I don't need to see any tests except Black Belts.... (although I would be glad to "sit in" whenever invited, even after you get the "green promotional light to any ranks") but we are not there yet... so bare with me.

In some cases, a promotion is in order even if the student is not exactly as skillful as needed....... that being said.... we must then examine many other factors as to why and see if there is enough merit to advance someone for good reason. Again, not every flower blooms at the same rate ~ so we must take in consideration many factors..... this is what you all need to discuss with me and the best way is to do it while promoting students.

I hope that gives you some insights....... don't be so eager to use the word... "attrition"... believe me..... it will pop up on it's own.... we don't need to help it along AT ALL...... :uhyeah: