. . .and by fertilizer I mean dung. 
In my years of training, I've spent time with a number of different systems, and I've seen all sorts of things said about those systems online, often not flattering.
I'm thinking of two different systems I've trained with (I'll omit them for now to try to sidestep bias and polarization that some names bring up, if it really becomes relevant I'll say who they are, but I'm more interested in the principle here than the specific examples). These two masters are teaching completely different types of martial arts that draw some skepticism from the rest of the martial arts community.
However, when I've seen them teach personally and practice, they seem to teach a solid curriculum and know what they are talking about. When I compare the techniques taught in their schools with those in more mainstream schools I've studied in, they appear every bit as solid and every bit as legitimate. Both systems have had longtime veteran martial artists come to them from other more mainstream schools and take it up as their new primary art, so if it was patently nonsense I'd assume that they'd stay far away.
Both have been teaching for over a quarter century, and part of me is wondering that even if their claims of training lineage weren't accurate (not to say they are liars, they may well have been told an inaccurate story they chose to believe and pass along).
One has no verifiable training or ranking other than a semi-mythic figure, the other has a 1st Dan and 3rd Dan in two mainstream schools and a number of 5th Dan/Shihan and honorary higher rankings from other schools that are sometimes questioned in their legitimacy.
So, that was making me think, what if they were honest and did have several years of solid training, and even knew enough to be an unquestionably legitimate Yudansha (albeit not a master), but let their ego get in the way and decided to found their own system. So, they would have the skills to unquestionably teach lower ranks, but after years and years (and eventually decades) of practice and teaching and study how much better would they get?
Even though they would not have any more ranks from a mainstream source, would they really learn more from teaching and practicing daily for decades?
The highest rank I've got in any school is 3rd Kyu, but that was with years at a time I couldn't attend a dojo because of timing and work and money and had to practice on my own. Practice on my own I did, every day practicing my techniques and kata, sparring with friends and roommates, generally trying to refine what I was already taught and figure out more things on my own from things I'd seen more senior students perform in class or from the more realistic martial arts movies I'd seen, or what just felt right and seemed to flow naturally.
I'd say I learned a lot, and when I came back to the dojo I might not have been officially certified for a higher rank and not known a few techniques, I realized that I moved better and fought better than people who were notably higher ranked than myself. I found myself able to out-spar black belts on more than one occasion. Then I thought, what if I was a 3rd Dan, and went off to open my own dojo and system, and taught it every day and it would be years before anybody would be promoted to near my own original rank, and I spent all that time practicing and teaching every day, would I really keep learning?
Even if their training lineage was just an interesting fantasy, even if most of (or all their) listed ranks were of dubious provenance, would the mere act of having a basic foundation of techniques and decades of teaching make somebody a master?
In my years of training, I've spent time with a number of different systems, and I've seen all sorts of things said about those systems online, often not flattering.
I'm thinking of two different systems I've trained with (I'll omit them for now to try to sidestep bias and polarization that some names bring up, if it really becomes relevant I'll say who they are, but I'm more interested in the principle here than the specific examples). These two masters are teaching completely different types of martial arts that draw some skepticism from the rest of the martial arts community.
However, when I've seen them teach personally and practice, they seem to teach a solid curriculum and know what they are talking about. When I compare the techniques taught in their schools with those in more mainstream schools I've studied in, they appear every bit as solid and every bit as legitimate. Both systems have had longtime veteran martial artists come to them from other more mainstream schools and take it up as their new primary art, so if it was patently nonsense I'd assume that they'd stay far away.
Both have been teaching for over a quarter century, and part of me is wondering that even if their claims of training lineage weren't accurate (not to say they are liars, they may well have been told an inaccurate story they chose to believe and pass along).
One has no verifiable training or ranking other than a semi-mythic figure, the other has a 1st Dan and 3rd Dan in two mainstream schools and a number of 5th Dan/Shihan and honorary higher rankings from other schools that are sometimes questioned in their legitimacy.
So, that was making me think, what if they were honest and did have several years of solid training, and even knew enough to be an unquestionably legitimate Yudansha (albeit not a master), but let their ego get in the way and decided to found their own system. So, they would have the skills to unquestionably teach lower ranks, but after years and years (and eventually decades) of practice and teaching and study how much better would they get?
Even though they would not have any more ranks from a mainstream source, would they really learn more from teaching and practicing daily for decades?
The highest rank I've got in any school is 3rd Kyu, but that was with years at a time I couldn't attend a dojo because of timing and work and money and had to practice on my own. Practice on my own I did, every day practicing my techniques and kata, sparring with friends and roommates, generally trying to refine what I was already taught and figure out more things on my own from things I'd seen more senior students perform in class or from the more realistic martial arts movies I'd seen, or what just felt right and seemed to flow naturally.
I'd say I learned a lot, and when I came back to the dojo I might not have been officially certified for a higher rank and not known a few techniques, I realized that I moved better and fought better than people who were notably higher ranked than myself. I found myself able to out-spar black belts on more than one occasion. Then I thought, what if I was a 3rd Dan, and went off to open my own dojo and system, and taught it every day and it would be years before anybody would be promoted to near my own original rank, and I spent all that time practicing and teaching every day, would I really keep learning?
Even if their training lineage was just an interesting fantasy, even if most of (or all their) listed ranks were of dubious provenance, would the mere act of having a basic foundation of techniques and decades of teaching make somebody a master?
