Abdelmajid3
White Belt
martial arts present styles in the art, example : in karate there is shotokan, wado ryu, shito ryu.... Etc. What makes these difference between styles?
Karate philosophy.
Karate philosophy.
Martial arts philosophy?
- Thread starter Abdelmajid3
- Start date
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
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isshinryuronin
Senior Master
watch some youtube videos and see for yourself.
General MA philosophy:
Striking art - fist meets face.
Throwing art - ground meets head.
Striking art - fist meets face.
Throwing art - ground meets head.
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mograph
Master of Arts
Gyakuto
Senior Master
Forgive me, but when I’ve ever seen Kyokushin fighting it looks somewhat…unreal. That’s not to say it isnt skilled or tough, but it looks ‘limited’. Compare this with MMA for example.Kyokushin summary quote
Fungus
Black Belt
You are correct and I agree! But I think by "real fights" here we mean not "real random combat without rules" but we emphasise that real contact KUMITE is the heart of our style. It is in KUMITE that your skills are put to test.
Headstrikes was tested initially in kyokushin but it turned out nasty. So the option was - put on gloves or ban headstrikes. Oyama didn't want to use gloves for several reasons, he wanted bare knuckle contact. So banning head punches is not at the core philosophy, it's just a tradeoff. Injuries would go exponential and people would drop out of training if we did weekly bareknuckle fights to the head.
I hear our instructors say that kumite is the HEART of our style. If you master all the KATAs yet fail completely in kumite then something is wrong. I adhere to that philosophy myself too, my own "goal" is that get more fluent and in control in fighting, that is much more important ot ME than learning all the various KATAs (set aside what gradings requirements require that is)
But that said some focus more on KATA, some focus more on KUMITE, some just enjoy the mix.
Fungus
Black Belt
I did a bit of wrestling as a kid, so I often feel in kumite class where an opportunity is perfect for going in for a throw or grapple, this is typically in close range, where someone heavy is pushing you, and then the best counter would be a throw - but it isn't allowed. It would change the game alot for sure, if you could grapple and hold a punch or a leg for example, rather than catch and immediate release.
So if we could add a little bit if that in our traiing, I'm all for it. But I want to avoid repeated head concussions. High contact is refreshing, but somewhere I draw the line to stupidity as well.
So if we could add a little bit if that in our traiing, I'm all for it. But I want to avoid repeated head concussions. High contact is refreshing, but somewhere I draw the line to stupidity as well.
Gyakuto
Senior Master
If only he could’ve used some kind of big padded ‘head glove’ so he could still have bare knuckle blows to the body but padded blows to the head. We can put men on the Moon but can’t devise a big padded ‘head glove’.
Gyakuto
Senior Master
Fungus
Black Belt
That's and idea but then it would be difficult to KO someone with a head kick?
Ironically punches to the heads aren't allowed, but any full contact kicks are.
As if they are benign? but the logic is that a kick is slower, and scoring a head kick while when guard is down is much more difficulty than simply a punch to the head. The FIRST thing we learn in kyokushin is; never drop the guard, as a headkick can come at any time - this is also the reason we train to eat body shots; but NEVER eat an attack to the head without blocking. Trying to block every body shot, is the first step to become head kicked. So those injuries are presumably much less frequent. Also small hard bare knuckles to the face, usually cut the skin things up more than a sole or a heel; so also lots of "cosmetic damage" in the face.
In normal friendly sparring, we go easy on head kicks (they should be controlled and not follow-through) this is called semi-contact; unless full-contact in adult competitions. I've gotten a few head kicks in training, but are controlled and not problem at all. The most dangerous thing is probably if you get a toe in your eye.
(Btw, in our style kids do wear such helments in competition, and they have semi-contact rules - meaning ~ full contact to the body except controlled and no follow-through kicks to the head; so no KO head kicks; just tap)
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Gyakuto
Senior Master
Yes you can. It’s the rapid torsional/lateral movements of the head that stretches the fibres of the corpus callosum that is one of the causes of KO (hence the myth of a glass jaw…it’s just a good lever for sharp rotation of the skull)That's and idea but then it would be difficult to KO someone with a head kick?
I’m not criticising but simply highlighting that every form of sport fighting have rules that pull them away considerably from ‘free fighting’. MMA has to be as close as possible to free fighting, that is until gladiatorial matches are brought back.
Gyakuto
Senior Master
No. I usually delete the text and put a full stop in the text.
Fungus
Black Belt
Yes, you are right, but I meant what is the karate term "jiyu kumite" to set it apart from prearranged sparring "ippon or sanbon kumite", so I think the "heart of kyokushin" is full contact jiyu kumite but in regular weekly sparring we often use semicontact as to avoid head knocks, full body contact. This sets it apart from for example shotokan. This is what I think Oyama meant by that, more focus on full hard contact skills, as compare to shotokan.
I can admit that looking at some high level shotokan, they are more "technical" and focus more one perfecting techniques to have good control. Kyokushin slightly less "pretty" but instead pressure tested. Some techniques and highkicks working well for FAST "tap contact" have insufficient power to blast through a guard, so these techniques are less common in kyokushinh. I think that is one way the philosohpy manifests in what you see. We train more the robust power techniques, maybe at the expense or body control (under less pressure) per see.
Gyakuto
Senior Master
I suppose it depends upon the motivation to do one’s particular art. If I really wanted to learn an effective unarmed fighting art to defend myself from attack, then I’d train in boxing or MMA - arts that are truly pressure tested (or marksmanship if I lived in the USA). I believe most traditional martial arts aren’t anywhere nearly as effective as boxing and MMA but they are beautiful and because I live in a prodominantly peaceful society with very low rates of violent crime (outside London and Glasgow) , that reduction in effectiveness and increase in beauty can become my personal priority. I’ve taken it several levels further and practise a TMA that it entirely useless but I enjoy it’s other, many wonderful characteristics.
I think thats the thing most people forget. In a lot of cases training in martial arts is a form of self actualization that just happens to make you competent in a fight as opposed to things like MMA or Krav Maga, where the sole purpose and intent is to bash someone's skull in.
If you wanna improve as a fighter yeah there are more effective fighting styles then then many traditional ones.
If you wanna improve as a person? I gotta say MMA and the like are kind of lacking.
