Marketing/advertising question

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm prefacing this by saying this isn't coming from monkey turned wolf the moderator, or a member of the staff. It's coming from someone who's realized all the other martial arts forums besides this one are pretty much dead at this point, replaced with reddit, facebook and discord groups. Specifically the official closing of martial arts planet.

Does anyone have any good ideas to try and market this site better, without necessarily trying to compete with those groups? The most obvious answer would be to post it on them, but then we'd get a flood of people who are not necessarily the right demographic and likely would leave...and with that thought, do we even want to market it at all? Or leave it for people specifically looking for webforums like this to find on their own?

 

[hoshin1600]

I would take a different view. Marketing implies selling something. Rather than trying to "sell" the forum i would be looking to build a tribe. This concept was first made popular by Seth Godin in business. He has a book on it if anyone wants to read more.
Build a tribe, strengthen relationships, do out reach. More meet ups like we did a few months ago and gather more people into the tribe. This forum could be the connection point for something bigger that brings value to people. The key is relationships between each other, how that manifests itself is up to leadership here.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I actually went back and forth a couple times on using the word marketing. Since I don't really mean marketing or advertising, for exactly the reason that you mentioned. But bringing in more people that fit the forum, and having the people stay around once they join.

 

[HighKick]

I'm prefacing this by saying this isn't coming from monkey turned wolf the moderator, or a member of the staff. It's coming from someone who's realized all the other martial arts forums besides this one are pretty much dead at this point, replaced with reddit, facebook and discord groups. Specifically the official closing of martial arts planet.

Does anyone have any good ideas to try and market this site better, without necessarily trying to compete with those groups? The most obvious answer would be to post it on them, but then we'd get a flood of people who are not necessarily the right demographic and likely would leave...and with that thought, do we even want to market it at all? Or leave it for people specifically looking for webforums like this to find on their own?

The marketing money-shot. It is different for every market and an ever-moving target.
For the kind of work I do, which does include a marketing component, the good old pro-con list consistently works best. Yes, this requires historical data to work best and weighting is very important, so be careful not to put too much weight on things that worked in the 'glory days' of this forum.

Since I am not familiar with how a forum is typically promoted, what are the current marketing initiatives being used? I would assume being associated, mentioned, and promoted by martial arts suppliers would promote the brand.
Mentioning the brand. IMHO, the logo leaves a lot to be desired. This is my perspective alone and may not be reflected by others, but should be considered, especially if it is older or just wrong.

I have always thought the site layout is more comprehensive than any site out there. The only issue I can see here is the overall attrition all martial arts are seeing. Some of the styles listed realistically may not even exist anymore. That said, keeping them listed shows great respect, and since they are already part of the layout, why change it? History is our greatest teacher, albeit often forgotten.

If anything, the site is too comprehensive. Great for the newcomer to get a grasp on the generalities, but not specific for many more seasoned practitioners. In this respect, it is or should be competing with the other major sites.

From my limited understanding, MAP died largely of it's own demise, using the site information for more nefarious purposes, killing it viewership. Is this incorrect?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I actually went back and forth a couple times on using the word marketing. Since I don't really mean marketing or advertising, for exactly the reason that you mentioned. But bringing in more people that fit the forum, and having the people stay around once they join.

Marketing is the correct term. It doesn't require you to sell something. You only need to offer a good or a service. Right now, your service is a Forum.

Marketing has changed over the years since the arrival of the Internet, so the old definition of Marketing doesn't apply anymore. Mass marketing is still a thing but done differently. The old ideas of Marketing Don't apply anymore, that's the quickest way to move away from your goal.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you wanna get the right people on the site without a bunch of randoms, try niche targeting. Don’t go head-to-head with Reddit or Facebook. Instead, share the forum in smaller places where martial arts fans already hang, like certain subreddits, YouTube channels, or blogs. Give them something special, like exclusive stuff or events, to pull in those who'd really vibe with a dedicated forum.

Also, another cool tip: targeted social media marketing. Using cheapest smm panel they suggest could help you grow while still reaching the right crowd.

I'm with you 100% on the niche marketing. I wouldn't do a general marketing effort because it would be a waste of time. It's always been a waist of but it was all that we had until the Invention of the Internet. Now there's no need to general market especially if the goal is to attract a specific type of person.

I would even go as far as developing some beginner lessons that yield results and try to grab all of the new generation of people looking to get into martial arts or are currently having problems learning martial arts. Not all martial arts instructors are good at teaching so filling in some of the gaps that would allow a beginner to excel in their school would give them reason to see what else is on Martial Arts. I wouldn't create content like how to throw a Jab correctly. I would create the lesson more as "Perspective lessons" which gives insights on the various ways some practitioners throw jabs within their systems.

See if some of the longtime folks in the group would be interested in donating lessons. Throw it on youtube and have some of the member participate in the conversation in Youtube. Find that guy who likes to beat dead horses. He's good for at least 100 youtube posts lol. But most important make sure that those who will comment understand that the goal is to attract more people to the website meaning that the participants can't be as opinionated or passionate as they normally are for the marketing project. For regular group discussion, it's fine. But for Marketing. It's going to require everyone to be positive about what they put and how they comment.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm with you 100% on the niche marketing. I wouldn't do a general marketing effort because it would be a waste of time. It's always been a waist of but it was all that we had until the Invention of the Internet. Now there's no need to general market especially if the goal is to attract a specific type of person.

I would even go as far as developing some beginner lessons that yield results and try to grab all of the new generation of people looking to get into martial arts or are currently having problems learning martial arts. Not all martial arts instructors are good at teaching so filling in some of the gaps that would allow a beginner to excel in their school would give them reason to see what else is on Martial Arts. I wouldn't create content like how to throw a Jab correctly. I would create the lesson more as "Perspective lessons" which gives insights on the various ways some practitioners throw jabs within their systems.

See if some of the longtime folks in the group would be interested in donating lessons. Throw it on youtube and have some of the member participate in the conversation in Youtube. Find that guy who likes to beat dead horses. He's good for at least 100 youtube posts lol. But most important make sure that those who will comment understand that the goal is to attract more people to the website meaning that the participants can't be as opinionated or passionate as they normally are for the marketing project. For regular group discussion, it's fine. But for Marketing. It's going to require everyone to be positive about what they put and how they comment.

You messaged me in response to this a while ago. I completely forgot about it.

Another idea could be a podcast. Only thing is we'd need to have someone who knows how to host one.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You messaged me in response to this a while ago. I completely forgot about it.

Another idea could be a podcast. Only thing is we'd need to have someone who knows how to host one.

Pod cast could be a good way to go, However I am not the one to host it....

I'm prefacing this by saying this isn't coming from monkey turned wolf the moderator, or a member of the staff. It's coming from someone who's realized all the other martial arts forums besides this one are pretty much dead at this point, replaced with reddit, facebook and discord groups. Specifically the official closing of martial arts planet.

Does anyone have any good ideas to try and market this site better, without necessarily trying to compete with those groups? The most obvious answer would be to post it on them, but then we'd get a flood of people who are not necessarily the right demographic and likely would leave...and with that thought, do we even want to market it at all? Or leave it for people specifically looking for webforums like this to find on their own?

Be careful about the flood of people thing. I posted on a Yoga Forum, that was, IMO, the best one on the web, a few years back. They let a flood of people on, and then they stopped enforcing their own rules to keep the post numbers up. They lost all their regular, very knowledgable poster and banned me because i had the audacity to PM the owner, with a list of his rules, and pointing out where the influx of people were breaking them. The site still exists, but it is mostly trolls posting ads, with little or no traffic

 

[JowGaWolf]

You messaged me in response to this a while ago. I completely forgot about it.

Another idea could be a podcast. Only thing is we'd need to have someone who knows how to host one.

I'm not a fan of podcasts and I've never used it for Marketing before. Probably because I always wanted someone to click on something or perform an action like buy something or go to a website. . Anything that is "Audio Only" for me is usually where I'm less likely to click on something and my attention is usually divided meaning. I'm halfway listening and doing something else. I listen to Sirius on my way to work and it took me more than 5 years to go to a website that was advertised on the channel that I listen to and that was only after I took a picture of the commercial ad that displayed on the screen. If there's another Sirius radio station being advertised, then I tend to go to that station within the same day or week.

With all of that said. The reliable thing I can say about podcasts is.
1. Only do it if that's where your target market is
2. Only do it if your target market will visit the website after listening to you.
3. Only do it if your target market is more interested in your website than your podcast. Meaning you don't want new members who only listen to the podcast and never go to the website.

I listened to the news almost every morning, but I never went to that news channel's website. Regular podcast content may also be more challenging for someone without the gift of conversation.

Pod cast could be a good way to go, However I am not the one to host it...

It's out of my capabilities. I'm more of a guy that "plants a seed and waits for the tree " Podcast for me would be like taking care of a child type attention. I don't lack the ability, but I do lack the time. Definitely make it a 2 or 3 person team effort so that everyone can play off each other's strength.

Here's some information about a podcast that I found.
"Starting your own podcast is an exciting venture! When it comes to the number of episodes to launch with, here are some recommendations:

1. Launch with 3-5 Episodes: This gives your audience enough content to get a feel for your podcast and decide if they want to subscribe. It also helps with initial engagement and retention.
2. Consistency is Key: Plan a regular release schedule (e.g., weekly, bi-weekly) and stick to it. Consistency helps build a loyal audience.
3. Quality Over Quantity: Focus on producing high-quality content rather than a large number of episodes. Good audio quality, engaging topics, and well-prepared content are crucial.
4. Pilot Episode: Consider creating a pilot episode to introduce yourself, your podcast’s theme, and what listeners can expect in future episodes."

 

[JowGaWolf]

Be careful about the flood of people thing.

This shouldn't happen if a specific type of martial artist is targeted vs trying to get everyone who like martial arts. Not to talk down on Martial Artist but we aren't the best example of sanity lol. Don't get me wrong. There are some great people who martial arts, but we got a lot of crazy people too.

 

[Steve]

Another idea could be a podcast. Only thing is we'd need to have someone who knows how to host one.

Podcast might work but you’d need to figure out what the overall point of the podcast is and who the target audience is. Podcasts only really work if you’re committed to publishing a new episode regularly on a schedule… typically weekly or a couple times a week.

Some pros to a podcast are that you’d be able to feature different people and have discussions. You’d also have an option to attach a patreon or other paid membership that could provide exclusive benefits (eg access to this exclusive forum).

Cons are that it’s a lot of work to do right, and would need to be approached like a job to be successful. It would also be personality driven as much as content driven, meaning that if folks don’t enjoy your banter, they won’t stick around… even if the information is sound.

Personally, the question is what you’re really trying to do. If it’s just to keep the forum alive, I think it’s overkill and chances of success are slim. If the podcast is a passion project on its own for which the forum could add value, then maybe it has a chance. If you have a clear vision, resources, and a core group of people with the personalities to cultivate an audience.

 

[Gyakuto]

Does anyone have any good ideas to try and market this site better, without necessarily trying to compete with those groups?

Isn’t advertising, by it’s very nature, about competing with other groups? Offering something ‘better’ to entice people away to your product? It’s Darwinian! Survival of the best adapted.

The most obvious answer would be to post it on them, but then we'd get a flood of people who are not necessarily the right demographic and likely would leave...and with that thought, do we even want to market it at all?

Just like advertising a martial arts class. The rate of attrition is high but those that stay make great contributions.

Or leave it for people specifically looking for webforums like this to find on their own?

Web forums are old fashioned. Young people tend not to use them in favour of other things because they can’t write in sentences and make reasoned arguments. Mind you that doesn’t stop some of the posters on here . I’d love to know the average age of the regulars on this forum.

The easiest and cheapest option is to is to post our existence on other martial arts platforms. I would strongly suggest introducing a ‘probationary period’ on joining where new members have to lurk and see how we do things; perhaps 3-5 years?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Podcast might work but you’d need to figure out what the overall point of the podcast is and who the target audience is. Podcasts only really work if you’re committed to publishing a new episode regularly on a schedule… typically weekly or a couple times a week.

Some pros to a podcast are that you’d be able to feature different people and have discussions. You’d also have an option to attach a patreon or other paid membership that could provide exclusive benefits (eg access to this exclusive forum).

Cons are that it’s a lot of work to do right, and would need to be approached like a job to be successful. It would also be personality driven as much as content driven, meaning that if folks don’t enjoy your banter, they won’t stick around… even if the information is sound.

Personally, the question is what you’re really trying to do. If it’s just to keep the forum alive, I think it’s overkill and chances of success are slim. If the podcast is a passion project on its own for which the forum could add value, then maybe it has a chance. If you have a clear vision, resources, and a core group of people with the personalities to cultivate an audience.

I don't do it often, but I agree with Steve.on this one. 100%. The first thing would be to identify the target audience (target market). Are you looking for old people like the ones you got or younger ones?

Just from past posts the younger ones seem to have a lot of post about "How to " question or "How do I"

 

[Steve]

I don't do it often, but I agree with Steve.on this one. 100%. The first thing would be to identify the target audience (target market). Are you looking for old people like the ones you got or younger ones?

Just from past posts the younger ones seem to have a lot of post about "How to " question or "How do I"

if you agreed with me more often, you’d be correct more often.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Web forums are old fashioned. Young people tend not to use them in favour of other things because they can’t write in sentences and make reasoned arguments. Mind you that doesn’t stop some of the posters on here . I’d love to know the average age of the regulars on this forum.

ha ha ha.. you sound like a Grumpy Grandpa lol They still use forums.

 

[JowGaWolf]

if you agreed with me more often, you’d be correct more often.

I see you are going to just "take the mile and not the inch"

 

[Steve]

Just another consideration where podcasts are concerned, fresh content can become a real challenge if you don’t have a reasonable, recurring source. For example a lot of podcasts discuss what’s in the news.

Coming up with 52 martial arts related topics every year could be a significant lift.

ha ha ha.. you sound like a Grumpy Grandpa lol They still use forums.

That’s twice in just a few minutes that we agree. May be the start of something wonderful.

 

[drop bear]

Podcast might work but you’d need to figure out what the overall point of the podcast is and who the target audience is. Podcasts only really work if you’re committed to publishing a new episode regularly on a schedule… typically weekly or a couple times a week.

Some pros to a podcast are that you’d be able to feature different people and have discussions. You’d also have an option to attach a patreon or other paid membership that could provide exclusive benefits (eg access to this exclusive forum).

Cons are that it’s a lot of work to do right, and would need to be approached like a job to be successful. It would also be personality driven as much as content driven, meaning that if folks don’t enjoy your banter, they won’t stick around… even if the information is sound.

Personally, the question is what you’re really trying to do. If it’s just to keep the forum alive, I think it’s overkill and chances of success are slim. If the podcast is a passion project on its own for which the forum could add value, then maybe it has a chance. If you have a clear vision, resources, and a core group of people with the personalities to cultivate an audience.

Would a youtube channel be easier?

Then people would see it when they see it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Would a youtube channel be easier?

Then people would see it when they see it.

From a marketing perspective how many podcasts have you clicked on vs youtube videos. Where does the target market go in when they look for information? Do they search youtube, podcasts, or both?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Wasn't the might Bob's original idea for MT to be like an online magazine, as well as a web forum?