Knives

[guy b.]

Which design of knives do you use and why?

 

[wckf92]

I think most would answer in reference for their own lineage(?). I'm guessing that most lineages have very specific characteristics regarding their knives.

 

[GiYu - Todd]

~4" folding knife that can confidently be opened with one hand. I've tried several brands/styles over the years. Main features I look for are accessiblility (how the clip is mounted), opening ease (but not TOO easy), handle design with something to stop my hand from contacting the blade if it's wet. Weight is a slight factor, but secondary to the others. Spring assist is an added benefit for confident opening.

 

[Mephisto]

I own lots of knives but for every day carry (edc) I go with something plain and multifunctional. Why? You're more likely to need a knife as a tool than as a weapon not to mention legal ramifications of using a specialized, expensive, "fighting" blade. If you ever have to defend your self your weapon choice can be just as important as the situation/scenario in which you used it, if you end up in court. If it's a clear open and shut case of self defense and you acted unquestionably within the law you might not get charges pressed and might only have to give an explanation to the police. But if you end up in court it's a different story. A prosecuting attorney may try to paint you as a trouble maker/vigilante/paranoid nut/ ect. If the weapon you carry such as a karambit has a notorious reputation you might end up in trouble. I recommend a blade that can be found at a local sports or camping store or perhaps your local gun shop as long as the blade isn't too specialized.

 

[PiedmontChun]

I read the OP's question as referring to the Bart Cham Dao or The Eight-Cutting Broadswords weapon form found in majority of Wing Chun lineages.
Am I right?

 

[geezer]

I read the OP's question as referring to the Bart Cham Dao or The Eight-Cutting Broadswords weapon form found in majority of Wing Chun lineages.
Am I right?

Yeah, that's how I read it. My lineage has it's roots in WT. Our BCD are smallish and somewhat pointed with a straight back, level from the back of the handle to the point. The smallish size is to facilitate our internal rotating movements without risking a cut to our own arms, the point is for thrusting and stabbing, and the straight line down the spine from handle to point aids in tip awareness for stabbing.

Here are a pair that look like what we use:

http://cdn3.volusion.com/ckv9e.ymqc3/v/vspfiles/photos/Z-BJD-EWC-LT-S11-440C-LG-B-4.jpg?1428481788

BTW I'm way too cheap to own a decent pair like that. I use a similarly shaped pair of cheap trainers. Some day....

 

[guy b.]

I read the OP's question as referring to the Bart Cham Dao or The Eight-Cutting Broadswords weapon form found in majority of Wing Chun lineages.
Am I right?

Yes of course, I mean the Baat Jaam Dao

 

[guy b.]

If you look in the which came first? thread I put some reseacrh about use of double knives in China over the period when wing chun appeared. Interestingly many of these are quite long, out and out stabbling weapons, quite different to modern wing chun BJD.

Does you BJD form emphasise chopping or stabbing? What shape are your knives?

WSL VT uses a chopping type blade and some are quite poorly designed from the point of view of real functionality, particularly cheaper training blades. Does this matter in a training blade?

 

[wckf92]

If you look in the which came first? thread I put some reseacrh about use of double knives in China over the period when wing chun appeared. Interestingly many of these are quite long, out and out stabbling weapons, quite different to modern wing chun BJD.

Does you BJD form emphasise chopping or stabbing? What shape are your knives?

WSL VT uses a chopping type blade and some are quite poorly designed from the point of view of real functionality, particularly cheaper training blades. Does this matter in a training blade?

Chopping, not so much. But I suppose that depends on the definition of chopping. I do know and have seen pictures of some lineages' knives that are shaped to "chop" vs stab, etc.

 

[wckf92]

WSL VT uses a chopping type blade and some are quite poorly designed from the point of view of real functionality, particularly cheaper training blades. Does this matter in a training blade?

I can't say. Don't know much about WSL's knives or knives training/curriculum. Personally, I think training knives should closely if not exactly resemble combat knives.

 

[GiYu - Todd]

Sorry. My mind was on carry knives.

Carry on...

 

[Danny T]

We train with a BJD similar to what Geezer showed.
We don't chop we crash and thrust forward. Similar to empty hands.

 

[guy b.]

Chopping, not so much. But I suppose that depends on the definition of chopping. I do know and have seen pictures of some lineages' knives that are shaped to "chop" vs stab, etc.

Chopping as in use of edge vs point

 

[yak sao]

Here are a pair that look like what we use:

http://cdn3.volusion.com/ckv9e.ymqc3/v/vspfiles/photos/Z-BJD-EWC-LT-S11-440C-LG-B-4.jpg?1428481788

BTW I'm way too cheap to own a decent pair like that. I use a similarly shaped pair of cheap trainers. Some day....

I've got that exact pair of knives geezer, they are spectacular. Like you, I'm a bit cheap but my set was discounted because of a slight imperfection in the finish ( it's a small smudge about the size of a quarter, next to the tang).

 

[drop bear]

I can't say. Don't know much about WSL's knives or knives training/curriculum. Personally, I think training knives should closely if not exactly resemble combat knives.

Why?

I would go the other way and be proficient with the concept that way if I had to use a knife I wasn't familiar with I could.

 

[wckf92]

Why?

I would go the other way and be proficient with the concept that way if I had to use a knife I wasn't familiar with I could.

Good for you dude. I can accomplish the same thing in my way. Kind of like shooting/firearms...once you learn and ingrain the fundamentals you can carry those fundamentals to whatever firearm you happen to be using....vice having to shoot a bunch of different ones.

 

[Vajramusti]

If you look in the which came first? thread I put some reseacrh about use of double knives in China over the period when wing chun appeared. Interestingly many of these are quite long, out and out stabbling weapons, quite different to modern wing chun BJD.

Does you BJD form emphasise chopping or stabbing? What shape are your knives?

WSL VT uses a chopping type blade and some are quite poorly designed from the point of view of real functionality, particularly cheaper training blades. Does this matter in a training blade?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Double knives were common in southern styles. Hung ga, CLF and wc have double knives. Usage and shape vary with families and styles.While Ip Man got his start with another teacher- good analysis will show that Ip Man's wing chun is different from that of his first teacher. Not likely that he made it up himself. He made the claim,credible to me,that Leung Bik-from Leung Jan's family taught him his advanced wing chun.

Ip Man named his knives- meaningfully- bot jam do. Bot is 8 in Cantonese. Common misinterpretation is that there are 8 jam motions.the bot is in the details of the motions.

IM was stingy in teaching the bjd-only about 4 of his students were taught the bjd by IM himself. Others learned from 2 of the four. Still others made up their own motions-IMO.

While there are many cutting and chopping motions- there are others including stabbing

 

[Vajramusti]

If you look in the which came first? thread I put some reseacrh about use of double knives in China over the period when wing chun appeared. Interestingly many of these are quite long, out and out stabbling weapons, quite different to modern wing chun BJD.

Does you BJD form emphasise chopping or stabbing? What shape are your knives?

WSL VT uses a chopping type blade and some are quite poorly designed from the point of view of real functionality, particularly cheaper training blades. Does this matter in a training blade?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Double knives were common in southern styles. Hung ga, CLF and wc have double knives. Usage and shape vary with families and styles.While Ip Man got his start with another teacher- good analysis will show that Ip Man's wing chun is different from that of his first teacher. Not likely that he made it up himself. He made the claim,credible to me,that Leung Bik-from Leung Jan's family taught him his advanced wing chun.

Ip Man named his knives- meaningfully- bot jam do. Bot is 8 in Cantonese. Common misinterpretation is that there are 8 jam motions.the bot is in the details of the motions.

IM was stingy in teaching the bjd-only about 4 of his students were taught the bjd by IM himself. Others learned from 2 of the four. Still others made up their own motions-IMO.

While there are many cutting and chopping motions- there are others including stabbing

 

[geezer]

.
IM was stingy in teaching the bjd-only about 4 of his students were taught the bjd by IM himself.

My old sifu is also very stingy in his teaching of his BCD form. I learned some of it. Not all. Regardless, I believe that movements must be practiced and tested against partners, the more the better. Otherwise, the movements become unreliable. With so few being taught, how many can actually find even one training partner to develop usable skill? To be honest, I have more confidence in my Escrima for weapons application. It has been tested. I learned from people who have used it. Stuff that I hope to never have to use myself, but I could if I had too.

By contrast, I value the BCD more for what it lends to my empty-handed WC.

 

[Vajramusti]

My old sifu is also very stingy in his teaching of his BCD form. I learned some of it. Not all. Regardless, I believe that movements must be practiced and tested against partners, the more the better. Otherwise, the movements become unreliable. With so few being taught, how many can actually find even one training partner to develop usable skill? To be honest, I have more confidence in my Escrima for weapons application. It has been tested. I learned from people who have used it. Stuff that I hope to never have to use myself, but I could if I had too.

By contrast, I value the BCD more for what it lends to my empty-handed WC.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We cant walk around with bjd-s these gays. However good bjd usage enhances body coordination and can help with short weapon usage including sticks.