Injury risk in different competitions

[skribs]

I'm thinking that I want to try some of the non-IBJJF competitions soon in order to get more experience competing. One of my big issues with IBJJF is so far my competitions have been one-and-done, and I haven't even remotely had a chance to do much jiu-jitsu. My first competition I was taken down early and smashed under mount most of the round, my second comp I got caught in an armbar 10 seconds in.

Grappling Industries, World Jiu-Jitsu League, and NAGA all have competitions in my area and all have a ruleset that guarantees multiple matches, either through double elimination, loser's bracket, or round robin. These would be great for me to get more experience at once. However, I'm also noticing the list of allowed techniques is longer, and I'm wondering if there's higher risk of injury in these events.

 

[Simfers]

If you mention your desire to compete in those competitions to your instructor, they will likely be more than willing to spend some class time going over the less familiar techniques (I'm guessing leg locks mostly). The increased risk mostly comes from unfamiliarity leading to either not realizing the danger or recognizing it but panicking and reacting poorly.

And of course, if you get caught, tap early. It's only a tournament, after all.

 

[HighKick]

I'm thinking that I want to try some of the non-IBJJF competitions soon in order to get more experience competing. One of my big issues with IBJJF is so far my competitions have been one-and-done, and I haven't even remotely had a chance to do much jiu-jitsu. My first competition I was taken down early and smashed under mount most of the round, my second comp I got caught in an armbar 10 seconds in.

Grappling Industries, World Jiu-Jitsu League, and NAGA all have competitions in my area and all have a ruleset that guarantees multiple matches, either through double elimination, loser's bracket, or round robin. These would be great for me to get more experience at once. However, I'm also noticing the list of allowed techniques is longer, and I'm wondering if there's higher risk of injury in these events.

Competing against styles you are not familiar with is a Great way to expand knowledge. But compete with an intimate understanding of the rules.
I would think that a logical assumption if they are using techniques you are not familiar with. But there is Always risks in competition. I would suggest clearly understanding the ruleset and knowing how/where/when they will protect a competitor and how to protect yourself if need be (tap-out).

 

[Yokozuna514]

I'm thinking that I want to try some of the non-IBJJF competitions soon in order to get more experience competing. One of my big issues with IBJJF is so far my competitions have been one-and-done, and I haven't even remotely had a chance to do much jiu-jitsu. My first competition I was taken down early and smashed under mount most of the round, my second comp I got caught in an armbar 10 seconds in.

Grappling Industries, World Jiu-Jitsu League, and NAGA all have competitions in my area and all have a ruleset that guarantees multiple matches, either through double elimination, loser's bracket, or round robin. These would be great for me to get more experience at once. However, I'm also noticing the list of allowed techniques is longer, and I'm wondering if there's higher risk of injury in these events.

Competitions are essentially checks on where we are in our training compared to others. The bigger the tournament the more chance we will be able to compare ourselves to others in our weight and class. More time on the mat is generally a good thing but going into tournaments that use different rule sets will not necessarily advance your main focus. Arguably, the time it would take for your to prepare for nogi tournaments may split your focus but it could also advance your training in other ways. It is as much as what you do with your results as getting the results themselves.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I'm thinking that I want to try some of the non-IBJJF competitions soon in order to get more experience competing. One of my big issues with IBJJF is so far my competitions have been one-and-done, and I haven't even remotely had a chance to do much jiu-jitsu. My first competition I was taken down early and smashed under mount most of the round, my second comp I got caught in an armbar 10 seconds in.

Grappling Industries, World Jiu-Jitsu League, and NAGA all have competitions in my area and all have a ruleset that guarantees multiple matches, either through double elimination, loser's bracket, or round robin. These would be great for me to get more experience at once. However, I'm also noticing the list of allowed techniques is longer, and I'm wondering if there's higher risk of injury in these events.

Which non-IBJJF-legal techniques are allowed in those other promotions? If you give me a list, I can give you my opinion of the potential injury risk increase.

 

[skribs]

Competitions are essentially checks on where we are in our training compared to others. The bigger the tournament the more chance we will be able to compare ourselves to others in our weight and class. More time on the mat is generally a good thing but going into tournaments that use different rule sets will not necessarily advance your main focus. Arguably, the time it would take for your to prepare for nogi tournaments may split your focus but it could also advance your training in other ways. It is as much as what you do with your results as getting the results themselves.

All of the competitions I am looking at (I believe) have both gi and no-gi, and I will focus on gi for now.

I am not good enough for most of the differences in rules to matter much. I'm not so much worried about whether I get an extra point for this or my opponent gets another advantage for that. So far I've scored 0 points and been submitted twice, anything is an improvement from that.

The injury risk is less about the rules themselves and more about the environment. How qualified the referees are, how much stake is put in safety vs. combat, etc. If there's a slightly different culture, it may be more dangerous by the nature of it.

 

[skribs]

Which non-IBJJF-legal techniques are allowed in those other promotions? If you give me a list, I can give you my opinion of the potential injury risk increase.

I'll try to remember to come back to this thread. I believe some leg locks.

Also: when is jumping guard legal in IBJJF? I didn't find it at all in the IBJJF fouls table, but I'm pretty sure at least white belts can't. (I'm blue, so that may not apply).

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Also: when is jumping guard legal in IBJJF?

There's been a push against allowing guard jumps in recent years, but I don't believe the IBJJF has banned it yet. I do think that a number of local tournaments which generally follow IBJJF guidelines but are not officially IBJJF-run have started to disallow it. If it were up to me I would definitely ban it for white belts and possibly for higher ranks as well.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The injury risk is less about the rules themselves and more about the environment. How qualified the referees are, how much stake is put in safety vs. combat, etc. If there's a slightly different culture, it may be more dangerous by the nature of it.

As far as I know, NAGA is just as good as IBJJF in terms of referee quality and emphasis on safety. I'm not so familiar with the other two organizations.

Edit - I'm looking through the NAGA rules right now and they are significantly more clear and explicit about the details of the rules than the IBJJF equivalent. I count that as a plus.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Just skimmed through the NAGA gi rules. I don't see anything significant in terms of techniques which are allowed there but not in IBJJF (at least not for your belt level).

In fact, jumping guard is disallowed until purple belt, which puts them ahead of IBJJF in terms of safety.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Just skimmed through the NAGA gi rules. I don't see anything significant in terms of techniques which are allowed there but not in IBJJF (at least not for your belt level).

In fact, jumping guard is disallowed until purple belt, which puts them ahead of IBJJF in terms of safety.

One other discrepancy is that knee reaping is completely banned in IBJJF except for black belt no-gi, but in NAGA it is only banned for kids and teens. From my standpoint this is a non-issue. The idea of reaping as being a major safety risk is way overblown. In my opinion, the ban against it was probably introduced as a way to nerf leg-lockers.

 

[skribs]

There's been a push against allowing guard jumps in recent years, but I don't believe the IBJJF has banned it yet. I do think that a number of local tournaments which generally follow IBJJF guidelines but are not officially IBJJF-run have started to disallow it. If it were up to me I would definitely ban it for white belts and possibly for higher ranks as well.

I know some schools have rules that are above and beyond the rules of IBJJF. My school bans backwards takedowns from body lock after multiple knee injuries from those.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

My school bans backwards takedowns from body lock after multiple knee injuries from those.

Other schools do this as well. IMO, it's because they are teaching the wrong* version of Tani Otoshi. The way some people try to do it is a risk to the knees if the thrower or the receiver messes up. The way I teach it is one of the safest takedowns I know of, presents zero risk to the knees, and I've never seen anyone come close to having problems with it.

*(I say wrong because it does present that potential danger. From an effectiveness version, it is derived from a legit variation which is used in Judo competition. However Judo competitors usually have more training to safely execute and receive throws safely. Also in Judo you rarely get all the way to your opponent's back, which means they usually don't have the option to execute the throw the way I teach it.)

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm wondering if there's higher risk of injury in these events.

As long as you don't let your opponent's body to drop on top of you when you are down, serious injure won't happen.

Most injury may come from this:

keegan-leg-block.gif

 

[skribs]

Other schools do this as well. IMO, it's because they are teaching the wrong* version of Tani Otoshi. The way some people try to do it is a risk to the knees if the thrower or the receiver messes up. The way I teach it is one of the safest takedowns I know of, presents zero risk to the knees, and I've never seen anyone come close to having problems with it.

*(I say wrong because it does present that potential danger. From an effectiveness version, it is derived from a legit variation which is used in Judo competition. However Judo competitors usually have more training to safely execute and receive throws safely. Also in Judo you rarely get all the way to your opponent's back, which means they usually don't have the option to execute the throw the way I teach it.)

The problem has been with the recipient being stubborn. But my Professor doesn't want to see people hurt.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

they are teaching the wrong* version of Tani Otoshi.

The safety of sport depends on the ruleset. Some bad rule may give someone an excuse to hurt his opponent.

A: Why did you drop on top of your opponent when you took him down?
B: He pulled me down and I lost my balance.

You won't see this throw used in Chinese wrestling because if you apply it, your body will touch on the ground first, you have already lost that round. You just give your opponent a free round. It's similar to pull guard or jump guard.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The problem has been with the recipient being stubborn. But my Professor doesn't want to see people hurt.

Still has to do with the version of the technique being done. With the right version, a stubborn receiver isn't in any danger of having their knees damaged. With the wrong version, an injury can result from either the thrower or the receiver making a mistake.