OLD TIGER
Hmmm...how to state this correctly?
THIS is basically a Systema forum....and many of us are aware of SS methods and although they are interesting often to this community - they are not exactly what we chose to 'do'.
I would imagine that there would be much the same reaction if SS was substituted for VV in a thread on a R-MAX or ROSS forum or site. It is NOT that the Systema group is against Scot...far from it - in fact, over the last few years, I have found myself speaking out on Scot's behalf when he was under seige on a few forums I frequent. IF 'we' have an 'ax to grind' -- it is more in support of exactly what we 'do' - -and many have seen Scot's work on tapes...and regard him well. I myself own a few of his tapes - and would recommend them to ANY open, seeking martial artist. I also was gifted with a club-bell by Scot himself -- and it is a treasured part of my equipment regimen. Search the name 'Shinobi22' here to read my comments about an old 'attack' about SS.
NOW - of course, as we are all human - not all will 'like' everyone. Thats just the human condition. But in the overall RMA community - SS will always be regarded as an early pioneer of bringing RMA worth to light in N. America.
Pleae do not view support for the method we have chosen as being any form of denigration of Mr. Sonnons worth. As one of the senior certified instructors of Systema -- I can state that in many personal discussions with my peers, when his name comes up - it is well regarded for what he offers, often. More than a few own a few of his offerings....we see some congruency to 'what we do' in his work - and see the differences also. When I taught Systema publicly, there were a few very congruent exercises I learned from his work that I passed along to my students - because they fit the Systema dynamic very nicely...I would imagine that other instructors of certain arts would find the same value -- if they looked into it. Of course, I would recommend Vladimirs work MUCH more -- I personally find much more worth in Vlads stuff than SS - exactly the same as a member of ROSS might say, conversly; about this subject.
Would I be wrong if I recommended the 'best of the best' that I personally trained with? Of course not! Still, I would mention SS and his work to those inclined to experience his work first....but to me, Vlad is the one I COSE to study with - MY CHOICE - and one I have not regretted....I have publicly stated often, I will be Sytemist for the rest of my time in life. Still, I can see some worth to me in SS offerings - and NONE in Systema have ever called me foolish for this statement..not my students, not my peers and surely not Vladimir himself -- for in almost now 42 years of martial study - he has PROVEN himself to be the most open and supportive teacher and guide to life and things martial - that I have EVER been blessed to study with as a teacher and in so doing - find a friend for life. I could 'quit' Systema tomorrow - and still know, Vlad would be my friend for life- we promissed each other such connection...years ago. As my body grows older, as the cumulative injuries mount up (from being involved in an 'action profession') - I simply cannot move like I once did. Oh, I try as hard as I can with some of the very challenging exercises - but I admit - the sprit is willing...but the body? Is busted forever. Many a lesser guide would not regard my efforts as highly as Vlad does....many. Somehow, he knows when I am 'fronting' and in such deep pain...trying to keep up. He not only accepts what I have had to do in life to protect and serve - he finds a twist for my limitations that gives my soon to be 51 year old body new life and unique understanding and movement. Sometimes, under his guidance - I am truly 25 again! And wind up 'moving' better than his younger more healthy affilates - basically, he is to me...that damn special and unique.
THIS is a section about Systema specifically...specifically.
I personally have no 'ax to grind' about the work of S. Sonnon -- but it is NOT Systema....and I kinda feel there was not any attack, but more 'support' for our teacher V. Vasilieve - and thats also kinda normal..would you not agree?
I have friends very highly ranked in the Bujinkan...and the differences between the two are legion. Still, they find a certain understanding from Systema exercises - and incorporate some that is congruent to their school of study. Is this not what seekers of knowledge do?
In closing, Although the original poster may never have seen anyone move like Scot - maybe they have not seen the movement of Systema? So, this one posts here - But there is a ROSS section in this forum also. More properly, thats really where that statement might have found more support from subsequent posters.
ROSS/R-Max people are inclined to thier choices - Systema people are also entitled to this personal choice. I just did a quick review of the preceeding posts - and really did not sense any dislike for SS - but more support for VV - which would be normal for a section earmarked for Systema....yes?
IF SS = Ross/R-Max
And VV = Systema
AND BOTH are considered iconic...then one cannot compare a student of either to the Big Dog....thats kinda unfair.
AND FURTHER..to all reading...for I truly wish you to find what your seeking --
IF you see more in ROSS - then study ROSS!
See more of value to you in Systema - then study Systema!
Neither art is exactly for 'everyone' - yet BOTH thrive by the efforts of those that feel they are better suited for one or the other - yet, an open mind - learns wherever something touches them deeply..names, styles - images and the damn 'clip medium' (that deliveres nothing but a shallow overview of anything 'seen yet not experienced personally in real time) be damned!
Bob Hubbard is NOT Systema -- he has HIS chosen method. Yet he was an open enough seeker to even create a section for ALL RMA on his site here - out of both professionalism as a webmaster for a martial forum - and one I have found to have an insatiable thrist for all martial knowledge.
A real warrior wayist - NEVER will be able to fill his/her cup to the brim!
It just doesnt happen - it is NOT 'The Way'!
A true open mind may have a certain vehicle of choice - if I could afford any automobile - I would like to own a nicely loaded mustang convertable - but as I drove that car down the marital road - I would make many way side stops to tast the many tastes of the martial offerings along The Way. So I chose (finally - after more than 35 years - back then - of seeking the vehicle to drive) Systema - -but I am fully understood and encouraged by my teachers Vasilieve and Ryabco - to drink from all the sweet and sour along the Way.
Oh no, Old Tiger - there is no ax to grind 'against' Scot in the mature Systema community. Some may rub up against him - and becomke even sharper by the experience...others, might find a lil bit of unexperienced polish from his work though...and that can be found in many methods - not all martial - please do not mistake support for a choice to drive a mustang for any form of dislike for a barracuda, we make our choices suited to ourselves.
In closing - I have found few who might not like SS - but even they do regard some of his work as thought provoking...and I would guess, that thats enough even for Mr. Sonnann to find in any adhearent that has chosen a path other than the one he expouses.
Too many words -- saying too little.
Thats seems to often be my 'style', at times.
BUT-- "Thats my story..and I am stickin to it"!
Overall, anyone who has ever clenced a fist or hit open handed in self protection, protection of others...or even for personal growth and understanding - we ALL are of the same community - just some like the neighborhood and choose to 'live' elsewhere'...but we all are of the same wayist seeking mindset.
What we eventually find, is up to the individual.
That is true in the martial way - and overall life itself.
Goodnight all..
Be safe,
live well,
be happy,
and attempt to leave this life a better place because 'you' were ever born.
Namaste!
Rob Green
NYC
PS - please excuse any typos - I am really too tired to edit this long post properly, thanx. :asian:
