Herbs vs Pharmacuticals

[Cryozombie]

We hear so much "conspiracy theory" nowadays about how the pharmacutical companies are aware of "Cures" for many diseases that are being suppresed because there is no money to be made in Cures, only in prolonged treatments...

Now people are coming out of the woodwork and claiming that they have cures for everything from Diabetes to Herpes, Hypertension, and even HIV. Most of these "cures" are of course Unlicenced Herbal treatments...

What do you guys and gals think... are the drug companies hiding cures from the world? Are the charlatans trying to huckster us with snake oil?

Do Herbs actually work, or are drugs the only way to go?

 

[mantis]

We hear so much "conspiracy theory" nowadays about how the pharmacutical companies are aware of "Cures" for many diseases that are being suppresed because there is no money to be made in Cures, only in prolonged treatments...

Now people are coming out of the woodwork and claiming that they have cures for everything from Diabetes to Herpes, Hypertension, and even HIV. Most of these "cures" are of course Unlicenced Herbal treatments...

What do you guys and gals think... are the drug companies hiding cures from the world? Are the charlatans trying to huckster us with snake oil?

Do Herbs actually work, or are drugs the only way to go?

Not only do herbs work but pharamacutical companies do extract their forumlas out of natural components found in natural herbs.
Chinese and Arabic medicine is not a lie or a joke, it has worked for a lone time. but the difference between today's medicine and that herbal medicine is that they used to eat the herb, drink it and so on, but now chemical formulas are extracted from it and mixed with other formulas, whether they are natural, herbal or industrial and packaged into nice packaging and sold.
I also want to mention that old diseases were simpler than today's and that's because of pollution, adultry and other exessive practices
Now, I am not only talking about herbs, but other resources like bee venom, viper venom (no, not the super-fast car!), and from other animals/insects.
I actually did a computer program for a professor who does research on leech, maggot, honey, bee-venom therapies at the university of california, Irvine.
You might want to contact him, he usually responds with material (he take a week to reply) and this is his web site: http://bterfoundation.org (sorry, ugly site, but has too material)

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

I think, Yes to both. There are occasional instances of big pharma not pressing an issue of a remedy, because there's no profit in it for them. The hucksters use these occasional events to point an encompassing finger to justify thier personal snake oil.

One of my favorite illegal remedies is DMSO. Cheap to make; good for lots of stuff; shot down under shady circumstances during FDA investigation. No profit in it for the drug companies, because they can't patent it. Used as an approved drug in over 100 countries. Approved for use as a SOLVENT ONLY in the U.S., but manufacturers mix it with stuff that's "good for you" because of it's transdermal carrier action. Now, whenever any scheister starts getting called to the carpet for their magic herbal meds, they all point at the DMSO legacy/history.

That said, there is a field called pharmacognosy, which focuses on studying natural source compounds for pharmaceutical isolation and application. The challenge they face, in my mind, is that plants themselves have thousands of phytochemical compounds, some of which may mediate the effects of the prime compound. So, do we extract the major player, leave out the minor support staff, and create side effects; or do we eat leaves?

Regards,

Dave

 

[arnisador]

Herbs can work, sure...concentrating them is one way to get pharmaceuticals!

I have no problem with herbs--garlic has evidence behind it, to take one example, and cinnamon for hypertension--but scientists start from there and improve them, or find things that are similar but mor effective.

 

[The Kai]

The odd thing is when mankind relied on folkloric medicine (like herbology) the life span was about what 50 years!

 

[mantis]

The odd thing is when mankind relied on folkloric medicine (like herbology) the life span was about what 50 years!

well, i think it was due to two reasons
first the doctors maybe did not know how to mix more than one herb and that could be because the right herbs did not grow in their areas. so they did not really use combinations complex enough
second is because they way they lived was more careless, more dirty and it was hard to fight an infection spreading in a society like that.
again, i think it's a matter of using those chemicals. those chemicals are found in nature anyway, so why not use them? in fact, for simple illnesses i see an advantage to herbs/natural medicine and that is IT TASTES BETTER! haha
oh, well.. sometimes it stinks too
i did some research and found these:
www.beelief.com

www2.shore.net/%7Espectrum/apitherapy.html
www.medicomm.net/Consumer%20Site/am/apitherapy.htm

 

[BlackCatBonz]

The odd thing is when mankind relied on folkloric medicine (like herbology) the life span was about what 50 years!

that is because there were no herbal remedies for things like viruses that required vaccination or penicillin for bacterial infection...........but for the myriad of other ailments, "folk" remedies work just fine.

 

[The Kai]

There are a ton of ailiments that herbology has no effectiveness over a placebo effect-anybody remember the claims for St john's Wart? or Shark Cartiledge?

 

[Lisa]

Do Herbs actually work, or are drugs the only way to go?

I think balance is the key. Naturopathic ways of treating joint problems, etc. seem the be big now, go into any store and you will see aisles of different herbal medicines.

Some people swear by the stuff, others don't believe in it at all. I think everything should be taken in stride and you find out what works for you and use the appropriate med/drug/herb at the appropriate time.

Me personally, I take my eccinasia (sp?) and don't seem to get as sick as often, could be a coincidence but since it works for me, or at least I believe it does, I will continue , but should I get a throat infection/strep, I will not hesitate to get some antibiotic to clear it up.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

There are a ton of ailiments that herbology has no effectiveness over a placebo effect-anybody remember the claims for St john's Wart? or Shark Cartiledge?

so does this mean that we should completely give up on the ones that are effective......or just toss all alternative modalities to the side of the road?

 

[The Kai]

How do you test the effectiveness of alternative modalities? Most of the evidence is ancedotal. Most alternative therapies have not been double blind tested. If you want to say "I'll do it no matter what if if can be proven or not" that's fine. But that is not really evidence, but opinion (IMHO)

 

[BlackCatBonz]

so lets get rid of chiropractic, osteopathy, naturopathy, shiatsu, and everything else that doesnt fit in with western medical practice.

 

[arnisador]

so lets get rid of chiropractic, osteopathy, naturopathy, shiatsu, and everything else that doesnt fit in with western medical practice.

What's wrong with testing them? Evidence shows that chiropractic is good for mild-to-moderate low back pain but has little effect on other issues. What's wrong with knowing that?

 

[arnisador]

There are a ton of ailiments that herbology has no effectiveness over a placebo effect-anybody remember the claims for St john's Wart? or Shark Cartiledge?

Laetrile?

But research does show some positive effects from some herbs.

But, most of those effects would be dwarfed by the effects of just following a healthy diet and maintaining a healthy weight.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

What's wrong with testing them? Evidence shows that chiropractic is good for mild-to-moderate low back pain but has little effect on other issues. What's wrong with knowing that?

i think that chiropractic is effective for more than just lower back pain.
ive been practicing namikoshi shiatsu for 6 years, which is excellent at treating a host of issues.
my whole point is, not everything effects 100% of the people 100% of the time as described on the package.
i see nothing wrong with testing the efficacy of any modality.......as long as the testing is performed by qualified individuals and the results are examined by unbiased individuals.

 

[arnisador]

Chiropractic may well be effective for more than that, but that's the only place it's been proven to be effective, I believe.

Sure, other things could help...or, could hurt (if only be delaying someone from seeking proper medical attention). I have nothing against people using them, but I wish more federal research money was funneled into testing them!

 

[Blindside]

There are a ton of ailiments that herbology has no effectiveness over a placebo effect-anybody remember the claims for St john's Wart? or Shark Cartiledge?

Or echinacea? Link to results of a double blind test of echinacea printed in New England Journal of Medicine.

One of my training partners is a supplement fiend, I swear that guy takes 20 pills a day. Oddly enough, he is not notably more healthy than the rest of us.

Lamont

 

[The Kai]

Again a double blind test would be effective, usally alternative medicine beleivers want thier stuff tested on people that already believe in it!

 

[Cryozombie]

So overall so far, Im getting

Drugs = GOOD

Herbs = Eh, prolly not but who knows

and

No, there is no real conspiracy.

 

[Kenpodoc]

So overall so far, Im getting

Drugs = GOOD

Herbs = Eh, prolly not but who knows

and

No, there is no real conspiracy.

I'd say

Drugs = Like all weapons good and bad but not intrinsically either. Potentially very good but need training to use well and just reading web blogs unlikely to be adequate.

Herbs = Potentially useful but rarely enough information available to make an informed decision. Usually sold like McDojos sell martial arts. Some herbal remedies when compared to RX drugs would be like comparing swords and sticks in the FMA, both effective but different.

and

No real conspiracy on the partof physicians. The pharmaceutical industry is run by suits with reasons to cheat and lie but a significant amount of federal insight. The herbal industry is run by entrapeneurs with reasons to cheat and lie and little federal oversight.

My experience with the Herbal industry is that it is like Televangalism. Lots of good honest honorable people in the flock, frequently lots of unhappy needy people in the flock and some very manipulative money hungry non believers manipulating the flock.

Jeff