bigfootsquatch
Purple Belt
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- Apr 14, 2007
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How are the Cpt John Painter and Erle Montaigue bagua videos? Are there any good chinese masters that break down bagua learning on tapes?
good bagua videos
- Thread starter bigfootsquatch
- Start date
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
No nothing about John Painters videos or Erle's but from what I have heard you might want to avoid Erle's.
There are a couple of good videos out of Asia, one I have seen and is out of China, but I will have to go home and get it and then I will give you the name later. However I am not sure it is in English, it may be subtitled.
I have been told, by a friend of mine that trained MUCH more Bagua than I that the books and videos by Park Bok Nam are very good but he is calling "Baguazhang" "Pa Kua Chang" same thing different spelling. Also the book is in association with Dan Miller and he is VERY good.
EDIT
OOPS!! I Forgot to add this link
http://www.plumflower.com/frames.htm
East Winds
2nd Black Belt
Xue Sheng,
Thanks for the link. I used to subscribe to the Pa Kua Chang Journal, but only got about 6 issues before it stopped being published. It was excellent publication, full of great information about Bagua. I will buy the DVD so that I can have a copy of all the issues. Can reccommend it to anyone interested in Bagua.
Very best wishes
Thanks for the link. I used to subscribe to the Pa Kua Chang Journal, but only got about 6 issues before it stopped being published. It was excellent publication, full of great information about Bagua. I will buy the DVD so that I can have a copy of all the issues. Can reccommend it to anyone interested in Bagua.
Very best wishes
Taijiman
Orange Belt
Kang Ge Wu's Bagua videos/dvds are really good. Lots of great explanation of the basics, qigong, training drills, different palms, some application, and the first volume goes over and shows examples of many different traditional bagua zhang styles. You can find it over at http://www.plumpub.com
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
The other one form China I was thinking of is by Zhang Quanliang
Dale Dugas
Yellow Belt
Dr. Painter's Baguazhang dvds are excellent and show how to actually use bagua in combat. He is much better in person as well. You can order them from http://www.artemis-seminars.com/products/1baguazhang.html
I am a teacher under him so if you have any questions please feel free to ask.
Be well,
Dale Dugas
I am a teacher under him so if you have any questions please feel free to ask.
Be well,
Dale Dugas
JadecloudAlchemist
Master of Arts
I have Liang's complete style of Ba gua on dvd I find it to be good. However I think it would be difficult to learn the art without a teacher just because of the small details. I have seen some of John's work I think its not bad but his system IMO as far as linerage goes I am not to sure of.
The Liang style is a great style but then again I just think Lizi Ming is awesome
The Liang style is a great style but then again I just think Lizi Ming is awesome
Speaking as a newbie here with ba gua- it really isn't the easiest to be able to just "pick up" by watching some videos. I suggest taking classes, and then buy videos for on- your- own practice. Having a teacher right there to critique your poses, stances, movements, etc. really helps. Personally, if I just tried this through video, I'd butcher it all to pieces.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
agreed.
I use to train Bagua, this is why I have the videos, but I no longer train it and haven't for years.
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
It's true. One should really have a teacher to learn the fundamentals and grasp the nuances and subtleties. DVDs and videos can work well for someone who already understands the footwork, especially in something like bagua where the footwork is somewhat complicated.
Trent
Green Belt
I've been a practitioner of Pa Kua Chang since it's been spelled that way, and other ways, instead of the current accepted English translation of Baguazhang.
As much as I enjoy picking up the odd thing here or there on video, you really need to find a teacher and learn in person. I don't believe you can learn through video without prior experience. The footwork is a problem, but more of an issue is the breath, coordination, body movement and mental understanding combined together in the way that is "bagua" like as opposed to "not baguazhang." You wouldn't even know what you aren't doing. I'm not saying what you wouldn't be doing isn't fun and interesting, but learning the peculiar method of bagua movement and expressing it in combat under stress is another thing entirely. It isn't necessarily the obvious external movements that make it baguazhang, but how the body moves when making any external movement for example.
However, for those with a solid background in baguazhang there are many good videos out now. Note that there are many different expressions of baguazhang that may have different external movements, but are clearly bagua. That touches upon what I referred to earlier.
Park Bok Nam was one of Dan Miller's teachers if I remember correctly. The "Pa Kua Chang Journal" was an excellent resource, and I was a subscriber, too. The CD is outstanding.
Kun Tao Silat uses baguazhang at the advanced levels known in Indonesian as "Po Kwa Zen." I trained in the classical Chinese version from the Cheng Ting Hua lineage for many years before being introduced to Kun Tao Silat and Bapak Willem De Thouars. They compliment each other very well indeed.
Best wishes to everyone on their training.
As much as I enjoy picking up the odd thing here or there on video, you really need to find a teacher and learn in person. I don't believe you can learn through video without prior experience. The footwork is a problem, but more of an issue is the breath, coordination, body movement and mental understanding combined together in the way that is "bagua" like as opposed to "not baguazhang." You wouldn't even know what you aren't doing. I'm not saying what you wouldn't be doing isn't fun and interesting, but learning the peculiar method of bagua movement and expressing it in combat under stress is another thing entirely. It isn't necessarily the obvious external movements that make it baguazhang, but how the body moves when making any external movement for example.
However, for those with a solid background in baguazhang there are many good videos out now. Note that there are many different expressions of baguazhang that may have different external movements, but are clearly bagua. That touches upon what I referred to earlier.
Park Bok Nam was one of Dan Miller's teachers if I remember correctly. The "Pa Kua Chang Journal" was an excellent resource, and I was a subscriber, too. The CD is outstanding.
Kun Tao Silat uses baguazhang at the advanced levels known in Indonesian as "Po Kwa Zen." I trained in the classical Chinese version from the Cheng Ting Hua lineage for many years before being introduced to Kun Tao Silat and Bapak Willem De Thouars. They compliment each other very well indeed.
Best wishes to everyone on their training.
To me having studied Bagua for a little(17years) while what i first noticed when i was studying under a instructor for 12 years when students from other systems of martial arts would come and train in Bagua they would have to wrap there minds around it an that would take a long time so many of them would quite. For instance there was a Karate 2nd degree in Hayashi Ha Shitoryu black belt that gave up cause he said his mind just could not get the turning concept that was going on. So, yes a teacher that has a strong understanding is just required in Bagua. My personal opinion is that it is a art that can not actually be learned from video, i mean the ABC's of it are much hard to see than some systems so to learn the physical vocabulary of the art would take a lot longer than any other system to learn it form video. That being said the best video i have are of again a man named Dr. Jerry Allen Johnson, I am not one of his students just his really are a study in Bagua.
Park Bak Nam books are good they are a understanding in the philosophy of Bagua but they leave a huge gap in the physical function an mind set of Bagua. His suggestion to do the movements thousands of time will definitely get you proficient in the moves, at least that is what i got from the subtext.
The most desciptive book on the history of Bagua is again by Dr. Jerry Allen Johnson, the title is: Classical Pa Kua Chang Fighting Systems and Weapons by Sifu Jerry Allen Johnson and Sifu Joseph Crandall.
The style of Bagua that i do is Chiang Jung Ch'iao School or what is referred to as the "Original Form" an yes i got the information(History) on this system from Dr. Jerry Allen Johnson book. The Original Form is a reference to the yin an ying concepts in the palms it is done differently than the other systems of Bagua. The thing that often is not told, only in the book by Dr. Johnson again is that there are 8 elbows, 8 fist, 8 palms. The book also tells you that the some of all the systems is based on the first two changes that was taught by Tung Hai-Chuan. That is to mean that all the style of Bagua come from these first two changes taught by Tung Hai-Chuan. What i find ood about people trying to study Bagua is that they actually will try to have defined stance that are more meant to be a very fluid state an not a specific stance, but yes there are specific names text based stance in Bagua they are meant again to be a fluid state(transitional phase). The mud walking is meant to teach you those stances in a very natural way an the name an how to check them come from the mud walking to. There are three levels to the stance an three types of practice for the stances in mud walking. Upper basin, middle basin, and lower basin the three level of stance. The practice are referred to by Snake step, Lion step, Chicken step for the practice in mud walking. The thing is that all that will naturally be conveyed if you stick with a teacher long enough they will help some but it is better to just get this through continued practice.
Dr. Jerry Allen Johnson books are very good so are his Video on Bagua.
Personally i studied under a teacher that taught me the Original form an did not include a lot of names cause he thought it would block the getting the throws an take down that come from the system of Bagua naturally plus he was a traditionalist in that i had to not just show physical improvement but also he would make a statement or ask a question an the response he received was how he would grade your level of understanding.
Park Bak Nam books are good they are a understanding in the philosophy of Bagua but they leave a huge gap in the physical function an mind set of Bagua. His suggestion to do the movements thousands of time will definitely get you proficient in the moves, at least that is what i got from the subtext.
The most desciptive book on the history of Bagua is again by Dr. Jerry Allen Johnson, the title is: Classical Pa Kua Chang Fighting Systems and Weapons by Sifu Jerry Allen Johnson and Sifu Joseph Crandall.
The style of Bagua that i do is Chiang Jung Ch'iao School or what is referred to as the "Original Form" an yes i got the information(History) on this system from Dr. Jerry Allen Johnson book. The Original Form is a reference to the yin an ying concepts in the palms it is done differently than the other systems of Bagua. The thing that often is not told, only in the book by Dr. Johnson again is that there are 8 elbows, 8 fist, 8 palms. The book also tells you that the some of all the systems is based on the first two changes that was taught by Tung Hai-Chuan. That is to mean that all the style of Bagua come from these first two changes taught by Tung Hai-Chuan. What i find ood about people trying to study Bagua is that they actually will try to have defined stance that are more meant to be a very fluid state an not a specific stance, but yes there are specific names text based stance in Bagua they are meant again to be a fluid state(transitional phase). The mud walking is meant to teach you those stances in a very natural way an the name an how to check them come from the mud walking to. There are three levels to the stance an three types of practice for the stances in mud walking. Upper basin, middle basin, and lower basin the three level of stance. The practice are referred to by Snake step, Lion step, Chicken step for the practice in mud walking. The thing is that all that will naturally be conveyed if you stick with a teacher long enough they will help some but it is better to just get this through continued practice.
Dr. Jerry Allen Johnson books are very good so are his Video on Bagua.
Personally i studied under a teacher that taught me the Original form an did not include a lot of names cause he thought it would block the getting the throws an take down that come from the system of Bagua naturally plus he was a traditionalist in that i had to not just show physical improvement but also he would make a statement or ask a question an the response he received was how he would grade your level of understanding.
