Densho for sale

[saru1968]

at

http://www.tengu.ninjas.co.uk/densho.htm

it all seems legit but is it ok to buy it, would there be a problem if you did?

Gary

 

[Cryozombie]

Hmm.

 

[Kizaru]

at

http://www.tengu.ninjas.co.uk/densho.htm

it all seems legit but is it ok to buy it, would there be a problem if you did?

Gary

Nothing about that page seems legit to me.

My reasons:

1. If you're given densho, you're not supposed to be spreading them to the four winds, let alone sell them on the internet.

2. Are they sending copies of the densho to people in Japanese or English? If you can't read Japanese, what use would they be? What reassurance do you have that the translation is correct?

3. Are the densho they're putting up for sale even from the 9 Bujinkan ryu?

4. Are the densho they're selling even authentic? What proof do they have? Are they selling densho with Hatsumi sensei's stamp on them???

5. Having the densho won't make you good at the techniques. Having the techniques properly taught to you, and properly training on them is what will get you moving in the right direction.

 

[saru1968]

Thats what i thought, thats why it seemed odd, but the site does appear to be Bujinkan or am i missing something?



Gary

 

[Don Roley]

The idea that someone actually has a densho is about as hard for me to believe as them having the title for the Brooklyn Bridge they are willing to sell you.

I love the way they state that you have to give the name of your instructor but they will not contact them, only merely confirm that they are legitimate Bujinkan instructors. Not only do you have to wonder if they really will check any lists, but they have to know just how easy it would be for someone to list people like Jack Hoban, etc whom they probably have never met.

Are these guys even a Bujinkan dojo? The problem I see is that people buying fake densho may then start passing them on to friends believing them to be real.

 

[silatman]

What is this densho supposed to tell you, I've not ever heard of it before

 

[poryu]

Hi

this is great I remmeber seeing this a few years ago.

The site i believe is owned by Alfredo Castan.

This guys notes can not be taken seriously. WHY???

He once wrote a letter to me. It listed all the ryu stuff he obviously knew existed.

The letter read

'Please sned me all your notes, I have enbclosed stamps for the postage'

I threw the list and letter in the trash and kept the stamps for his arrogance.

Dont waste your money. Train and write your own.

 

[Cryozombie]

Just a quick note, not to sidetrack the thread, but I wanted to say Welcome
to you Paul, we look forward to your contributions.

Enjoy Martialtalk!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Clearly if this was legit, they would have to have
Sokes approval for it! Judging by my knowledge of
how things work, this clearly is not legit! However,
that is just my opinion! Besides, if I were given
a Densho anywhere other than from Soke would it
even be worth the paper or ink it was written on!
Not in my opinion!

Brian R. VanCise

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Looking at this site again! It appears to me that they
are trying to make money off of teenagers! Classless,
and clearly misleading!

Brian R. VanCise

 

[Don Roley]

Hi

this is great I remmeber seeing this a few years ago.

The site i believe is owned by Alfredo Castan.

This guys notes can not be taken seriously. WHY???

He once wrote a letter to me. It listed all the ryu stuff he obviously knew existed.

The letter read

'Please sned me all your notes, I have enbclosed stamps for the postage'

I threw the list and letter in the trash and kept the stamps for his arrogance.

Dont waste your money. Train and write your own.

That is just so wrong on so many levels.

The thing that really sets me off is them calling this thing a 'densho' which makes people think it is something official. Instead it is just what someone pieced together. If they called it 'training notes' or 'XXX dojo official guide to YYY' it would be something different. But Densho are issued by the head of the art.

And the idea that someone would put their notes (gathered from other people) at the same level as a densho is just so damn arrogent. I read something by Arnaud the other day and in it he said something like, 'if you find something in this with which you disagree- it is probably because I am wrong.' I looked over a series of notes on the Gyokko ryu by Bud Malmstrom and at the beggining he stressed that it was just what he knew at this stage in his training and not the end all to the subject by a long shot.

And this yutz calls what he put together by the same title as the highest works in the art. It even says, "If you don't have access to these original manuscripts you are not getting the full benefit from learning Budo !"
:flame:

Oh, and getting people to send in stuff for free and then profiting off of their efforts.... that type of thing really makes me want to put things out on the internet for others to steal and repackage for sale. :flame:

Shall I talk about the problems I have with people who learn from other people's notes??? And then turn around and teach others through notes????

I know this guy probably does not bother to show up to Japan. But if anyone finds out that he will, let me know so I can let a few other people here know and we can prepare. :whip:

 

[poryu]

Hi Don

I no longer have any contact with Alfredo so cant tell you if he is even training any more.

I do know he is a Judan.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Generally my opinion is the only good notes are your notes!
That does not mean that you can't learn something from
someone else's notes provided that they explain the notes,
show you how they perceived the technique being taught
and demonstrate it! In other words they have to teach
you it! Nobody should be out there asking for other peoples
notes and then trying to sell them and make a profit!

By the way some of the best brainstorming can happen
right after a class when a bunch of guys get together and
go and write down what was covered and compare notes!

Selling a Densho over the internet is silly! I have to agree
with Don that calling these notes a Densho is misleading as well
and clearly they cannot compare to the true work of art!

Brian R. VanCise

 

[Don Roley]

Generally my opinion is the only good notes are your notes!
That does not mean that you can't learn something from
someone else's notes provided that they explain the notes,
show you how they perceived the technique being taught
and demonstrate it! In other words they have to teach
you it! Nobody should be out there asking for other peoples
notes and then trying to sell them and make a profit!

I have had the experience of having an ex-instructor I call the evil one who got notes from someone and turned around and taught the stuff to us. I come down on people for doing that even if they are honest about it because I have seen just how wrong the end result can be.

Just a few weeks ago I was working out with Kizaru on something from Koto ryu. I goofed and started off using the way of receiving an attack in the Gyokko ryu style. He caught my mistake and when I did it correctly they whole sequence came together. But people like my old instructor and others who try to use notes to practice probably never get to that level of detail- and the details are important.

So these guys are not only pretty dishonest in what they do, I think they are probably hobbling the future progress of their buyers.

 

[Kizaru]

I Just a few weeks ago I was working out with Kizaru on something from Koto ryu. ..... when I did it correctly the whole sequence came together.

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