Any real knife episodes?

[Nemesis]

I've seen a lot of threads here about knifes, knife fighting systems, even one good article about the materials and design of a good self defense knife. I am sure that there are in here a lot of people very well versed in this weapon.

But how about real stories? Has anybody ever had the badluck of having to test their skills on the streets?
What happened? What did you feel, both during the fight and after? What do think you did wrong or good in the fight? And what were the legal implications?

 

[samurai69]

This clip is worthy of a look (there are some graphic shots so watch with caution - maybe not safe for work) - i found it very imformative

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8884586003342147853&q=martial+arts

 

[Nemesis]

It is amazing that those cops didn't stand at such long distances.

The guy that had is back cut 3 or 4 times was a cop, i read the sory on another thread, he was trying to arest a guy "only armed with a knife".
It scary how such an accessible and low tech weapon can be so deadly!

 

[ryangruhn]

It is my understanding that the next DBMA DVD will have some good stories. Check out the trailers:

http://dogbrothersvideo.com/interfacetrailer.wmv

http://dogbrothersvideo.com/kniferumination.wmv

Gruhn

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Nice link Ryan!

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

 

[MA-Caver]

Very educational indeed. It's a given (to me anyway) that officers need to already have their weapon drawn should the suspect not reveal both hands upon demand. That an officer should not even face a suspect alone, but sometimes do.
But I do not believe that MA-defense against a knife is a myth. It was clear that the "defendant" (LEO and/or MA-ist) needs to be prepared for any eventuality; especially for concealed weapons.
My own practice/training with a blade (as an attacker) is to never reveal the blade until moments before or moments after the strike/cuts. Often times I will let them move towards me rather go towards them. But regardless they won't see my blade until afterwards or just seconds before.
Some may branish the blade in hopes of intimidating but it shows (to me) that they are not trained nor skilled in it's use. But it really doesn't take much to inflict a lot of damage even with a carelessly weilded blade.

 

[Nemesis]

Check out this. It makes you think twice about beeing a good samaritan, doesn't it. It's a bit graphic.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search=knife%20fights&sort=relevance&page=3

 

[Dark]

But how about real stories? Has anybody ever had the badluck of having to test their skills on the streets?
What happened? What did you feel, both during the fight and after? What do think you did wrong or good in the fight? And what were the legal implications?

OK I used to over a drug dealer and under two crack addicts, bad times I know. Anyway, I ended up getting in a fight with this little (words that can't be used in this forum) and he emidiently wne tof a clinch , has bigger buddy picks up a broken chair leg and starts hitting me in the back.

I thumbed the little punk in the eye and pulled my trusty box cutter, been carrying one since before 9-11. A quick slash across the punk's thigh dropped him, the bigger SOB was alittle more harder to hit with the club.
So I ran into my apartment and called the cops, the bigger guy burst and I slashed him across the face.

When the cops got thier they claimed I assaulted them over some drugs and that I came at them. The blood on my door facing which, I took pictures of backed my in-home-invasion story.

I got my box cutter taken and a fine, they got 6 months probation.

 

[Nemesis]

Check out this story. I used to know a couple of guys, and one night they went out for a few drinks. They didn't have a car so, when it was time, they walked home. They had to go through a little bad neighbourhound, unfortunnatly one of the local bad guy wannabes was there and decided to pick on them. They just wanted to go home so they walked away, bad move!!
The other stabbed one of them seven times in the back!! Either the guy who got hit was very lucky or the attacker was very good, no vital organs were hit. The attacker was never caught!

 

[Dark]

It happens I always carry one of those 4 for a buck box cutters on me, and I'm ahppy to use it if I have to.

 

[Nemesis]

So what is the solution? They have a blade, i get a bigger blade. They have a gun, i get a bigger gun.

These are sad days we are living in!

 

[Dark]

So what is the solution? They have a blade, i get a bigger blade. They have a gun, i get a bigger gun.

These are sad days we are living in!

The solution is USE the blade or gun... It's sound horrible I know, but think of it this way who is more dangerous? A guy who talks about how he is going to mess you up? Or the guy who just walks up and punches you in the mouth? Who are they gonna be less likely to rob, they guy who says "I don't want no trouble." or "Please leave me/us alone." or guy who says "Look I have one to, wonna draw!"

There are fundamanetal levels in agression and agression actions. I once had a guy threaten me and flashed a gun. A threat is the first sign of inaction, flashing a weapon but not drawing it is the second. In that the guy was looking for an easy target. I pointed out to him that a) guns are loud and long range weapons and that b) I could with all my Special Forces training and cut his lower intestines and strangle him with them before he got that gun into play. I partial bluff, I could have sliced him open real good but I'm not SF

A willing target and a unwilling target are the same, smaller prey for larger predators. Something alway true in nature except for two occasions, smaller predators who are backed into corners and have no recourse but to fight and wolverine which at the size of a beagle can chase off a Grizzely Bear.

I once had a girl ask me how best to defend herself if attacked in a dark alley? I respond with stab the attacker without warning. Her response was but what if he has a gun? And my response was then stab him in the heart. And she kept saying but what if I get shot? My only reply was "but why were in a dark alley, alone?"

In short:
If someone wants to harm you they will do it, all you can do is be ready to fight back as best you can and not worry about getting hurt buy hurting them. If you have a gun, use it. If you have a knife, use it. A small town in Kentucky was over flowing with crime. The town losed up the "citizen's arrest" laws and said anyone with a handgun could carry it in plain sight. Crime dropped 40% in the first month and violent crime 80% in the same month.

 

[Stealth]

The solution is USE the blade or gun...

Yup, I have guns all over my place, and in each vehicle... I hope I never have to use them, but it is better to have and not need than need and not have.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Here's a little story of how the technique "Unleashing Petroleum" was created. LOL.

Being a Martial Artists I realize that one of the most important principles of self defense is “environmental awareness.” Environmental awareness is defined basically as the ability to observe daily conditions and surroundings and make on the spot decisions to either avoid danger or take advantage of the opportunities offered. Applied, this principle could be something as simple as not walking through dark alleys by your self at night or it could apply to using a handy broom as a bo staff to fend off an attacker. But, like most people, I am subject to lapses in good judgment at times.

In 2003 I was sent to Tucson, AZ by my employer for a few months to help establish a new office. I found myself thousands of miles from home in unfamiliar surroundings driving a rental car with the fuel gauge resting just above “E.” I came across a gas station, but hesitated to stop. It looked kind of run down and the area I was in was not exactly ‘up scale’ if you know what I mean. The parking lot was littered with burger wrappers and beer cans. Directly behind the filling station was a dilapidated wooden fence that was obviously put in place in a vain attempt to hide an even more dilapidated looking trailer park. The trailers visible from the road were the old 1950’s silver bullet type covered sporadically by rust spots. Amazingly enough, one could tell that people still resided within those trailers. Normally I would not have stopped but being that I was almost out of gas and did not want to get lost; I decided to pull in.

As I exited the vehicle I noticed the area was relatively quite. There didn’t seem to be a lot of traffic nor did I observe anyone outside of the store. There was only one other vehicle in the parking lot and I assumed it must belong to the clerk inside. I was not surprised to find that the gas pump was not new enough to accept my debit card and resided myself to the fact that I would have to go in to pay. I removed the gas cap, flipped the pump on, and began fueling.

Something caught my attention from the corner of my eye and I looked up from absently watching the gallons click off to see a slender man approaching from the sidewalk. His clothes looked worn and a bit dirty. He had the look of someone accustomed to working out doors which was not in any way strange or cause for suspicion, but what bothered me was the way he walked. He seemed nervous. He was not directly focused on the direction in which he was walking but instead was constantly scanning his surroundings; as if he expected someone or something to ambush him. When he noticed me he seemed to hesitate then he altered his path towards my direction. My first thought was, “Oh great, this guys going to come over here and ask me for money.”

As he came closer I noticed his right hand move behind his back and I thought, “Oh crap, I think I’m about to be robbed!” My pulse started to race as did my mind. Images flashed through of scenario after scenario played out in the dojo in preparation of such an event. I remember thinking, “If this guy pulls a gun on me from that range I’m up the creek without the proverbial paddle.” I realized that if he did pull a gun the only way I could effectively defend myself would be if he were in arms reach so I began to maneuver towards the steel pylon that supported the shelter above the gas pumps. If he was going to shoot me I wasn’t about to give him a clear shot. As his hand reappeared I could see that he had not produced a pistol, but instead held a rather nasty looking knife.

As he continued to close the gap between us he began yelling at me. His English was horrible and it was hard for me to understand him but his intent was very clear; he wanted my wallet. At this point I feel it necessary to interject that no one’s life is worth a wallet. I believe that if all you need to do to survive a life or death situation is to give up your wallet, then you should do so. However, this case was a bit different. This occurred prior to the July 4th weekend. The previous weeks I had been working 10-14 hour days and I was ready for a break and some R&R. I’m somewhat of a history buff and I knew that if I did not do anything else for myself while in Arizona, I was going to visit the historic city of Tombstone. It just so happened that prior to stopping at the gas station I had stopped by the bank and now had over $600.00 in my wallet to fund my trip and buy souvenirs and so forth. As you may imagine, I was not as willing to give up $600.00 as I may have been to give up $20.00 or $40.00.

I tried to warn the fellow to leave me alone and encouraged him to go away but I failed to convince him. He continued to edge closer and closer to me and when he got just outside of arms length I realized I had to do something. Time seemed to stand still as images and memories from my Kenpo training flashed through my mind at what seemed like the speed of light. Without thinking I withdrew the gas nozzle from the tank of the rental car and unleashed a burst of gasoline into my attackers face. He screamed and dropped the knife as he brought his hands up to his burning eyes. As he did so his stance widened exposing his groin so I took advantage of that and executed a right lifting kick that seemed to pick him up off the ground about an inch or two. Upon kicking him in the groin his hands dropped down from his face and I remember thinking, “This is almost like ‘Thrusting Salute’,” and I actually planned on following up with a palm heel strike as called for in the technique. However, as I have been taught and also teach, techniques are not likely to be executed ‘by-the-book’ in the streets due to unpredictable variables. In this case, my attacker turned away from me towards my left as he doubled over in pain from the kick which obscured the better targets I wanted for the palm heel strike; his nose or chin. Thankfully, there are other targets that can render effective results when struck properly and one presented itself. As he turned he exposed the side of his head so instead of using a palm heel strike I instead used a right hook punch connecting perfectly with the area directly behind his left ear. The moment my knuckles impacted to the rear of his jaw line he went limp and collapsed to the ground in a pool of spilled gasoline and it was over.

It wasn’t long before the police and ambulance arrived. Apparently, the store clerk had seen the man approaching me and called them upon seeing the knife. The police told me that it was common for illegal immigrants from Mexico to cross the border and then rob people in order to get American money. I’m not sure what the clerk told the police but they were quite interested in how I disabled my attacker. Not that I minded telling them about the benefits of Kenpo, but I gathered from their enthusiasm that the clerk embellished quite a bit about what actions I actually took. But that’s not really the funny part. The funny thing is as I stood there over him I thought, “That’s it?!” I couldn’t believe how quickly it was over but more so than that I couldn’t believe how easily my attacker was taken out. In the past I had played out scenarios in my mind as to how I thought I might deal with an attacker or attackers whether armed or unarmed. I spent hours practicing and hours training in the dojo honing the skills I would need to become a Black Belt in American Kenpo Karate and when I had the opportunity to showcase all my amazing skills I ended up basically using a Yellow Belt technique!

 

[monkey]

Heres a differnat twist.My friend had his house brok into.The guy came in threw the sky light.When my friend was confronted with the knife by the guy.My friend broke his arm.Not telling his was a brown belt. The guy took him to court - sued & won.The judge said (No restraint was used & no sign of dealy force was deplayed to merit such force).Funny how we cant protect our selvs.We dont know thier intent at that time.it may change later & be viewed as just a minor thret.

 

[Stealth]

Dead men tell no stories.

 

[monkey]

Oh but they do says (Quincy M.D. )odd little show.But for its time it was something to watch.

 

[Dark]

Dead men tell no stories.

You my friend have never watched CSI lol...

 

[Stealth]

You my friend have never watched CSI lol...

:lol:

Yeah, but if someone was truly trying to kill you and you defend yourself the evidence will show that... And the they can't lie about what happened and try to sue you. I hope I am never put into a situation like that, and would have a very hard time killing someone... Even if they were trying to harm me.

 

[Knarfan]

Very educational indeed. It's a given (to me anyway) that officers need to already have their weapon drawn should the suspect not reveal both hands upon demand. That an officer should not even face a suspect alone, but sometimes do.
But I do not believe that MA-defense against a knife is a myth. It was clear that the "defendant" (LEO and/or MA-ist) needs to be prepared for any eventuality; especially for concealed weapons.
My own practice/training with a blade (as an attacker) is to never reveal the blade until moments before or moments after the strike/cuts. Often times I will let them move towards me rather go towards them. But regardless they won't see my blade until afterwards or just seconds before.
Some may branish the blade in hopes of intimidating but it shows (to me) that they are not trained nor skilled in it's use. But it really doesn't take much to inflict a lot of damage even with a carelessly weilded blade.

I personally have trained with a good number of police officers in agressive knife tactics & although they probably have much more real life experiance than most of us, they still (in most cases) lack the proper edged weapon training, but, that can be said for most of us, even seasoned MA. Truth is, no matter how much training you have you still will have a difficult time dealing with a serious knife attack, but, I don't believe that defense against a knife is a myth,but, it is the most difficult thing to deal with, your going to get cut no matter how good you are but, there are ways, to minimize the damage (if running isn't an option) but, you have to make some serious choices, which may involve drawing your boxcutter,blade or whatever. The problem that I see is that most times people learn knife defense. IMHO, you have to find a way to turn the tables quickly & that usually means acting more aggressivly then most of us are used to. The problem is though, if you get seriously cut you probably are going to panic, I think that I would? Tuff to train for that kind of trauma.
Good point about the officer drawing his weapon asap, there are ways that they can be more proactive instead of reactive.