Please use this thread to discuss Abanico Corto techniques.
Abanico Corto Techniques
- Thread starter Guro Harold
- Start date
OP
OP
Counter against a #1 or #2 strike.
- Strike the opponent targeting the arm or hand, wrist or forearm of the opponent, then execute a witik to the opposing side.
- Strike the opponent targeting the arm or hand, wrist or forearm of the opponent, then execute a witik to the opposing side.
Wasn't this technique also referred to as "planting rice" by Professor Presas? I might be incorrect on this, but I recall my instructor using
that term. Isn't this a side to side arcing motion? In terms of my
Kenpo background I would describe the abanico corto strike as going
from my right side (3:00) in an arcing motion, a forehand that drops to
the floor (9:00) striking/blocking the incoming #1 strike then returning along the same arc as a backhand arcing strike underneath and against the enemy's right arm (3:00), followed with a left hand check. This
would be followed up by using a forehand strike #1, a horizontal abanico
pattern and an upward twirl (abanico double action pattern) to finish.
Morgan
OP
OP
Hi Morgan,
The answer from both your and my perspective covers the various eras of Modern Arnis techniques.
The short answer regarding the Abanico Corto techniques that I started to use for example come from the Black Belt Series used as a base.
As far as abanicos, basically, there are actually two major angles for abanicos, vertical and horizontal. There actually was a drill that I learned where you actually go through the abanicos. Horizontal abanico to the right, horizontal abanico to the left, vertical abanico to the right, and finally a vertical abanico to the left.
The "planting rice" drill was pretty much the same, only that when planting rice, a player would cover, east to west, north to south.
The advanced player knows that from the basic angles, that abanicos can and will come from any variation of angle.
As far as "Abanico - Double Action", that definitely is a valid abanico corto techinque. It was mainly documented in the Modern Arnis 80's (Sorry Dan
) video series.Thanks,
Palusut
Morgan and Palusut
I thought the "Planting rice" technique was different than "Abaniko corto" although they are both abanikos and can be executed in close/corto range.
"Planting rice" was more of a slice block and check with the stick traveling down towards the floor to hit the foot and then it came back up to hit the other side of the hand and pass it towards the inside/outside depending upon what side of the hand was hit. From there it could smash down to the floor and come back up and so on, but it formed an arcing motion.
"Abaniko corto" though worked on a different principle of using the force of the strike and blending with it and hittting the person. So if person A feeds a #1 and person B blocks it on the inside, as B blocks/makes contact with A's stick B's stick rotates around A's stick (using the force of A's stick to speed it up) to where now B is on the outside of A's stick hand arm to strike A's head and from there follow up with various techniques to finish the person. Abaniko corto here uses the power of the incoming strike to add to the power of the defensive strike while also using the stick hand arm to bump A's weapon arm out of the way allowing B to get on the outside of A.
A 2nd hit/cut can be made with the stick after it has hit through A's face to reverse it's direction and come across A's stomach where B can also follow up with various techniques by hooking A's stick hand with B's punyo.
So while both techniques might fall under "abaniko corto" I believe they are vastly different.
Mark
I thought the "Planting rice" technique was different than "Abaniko corto" although they are both abanikos and can be executed in close/corto range.
"Planting rice" was more of a slice block and check with the stick traveling down towards the floor to hit the foot and then it came back up to hit the other side of the hand and pass it towards the inside/outside depending upon what side of the hand was hit. From there it could smash down to the floor and come back up and so on, but it formed an arcing motion.
"Abaniko corto" though worked on a different principle of using the force of the strike and blending with it and hittting the person. So if person A feeds a #1 and person B blocks it on the inside, as B blocks/makes contact with A's stick B's stick rotates around A's stick (using the force of A's stick to speed it up) to where now B is on the outside of A's stick hand arm to strike A's head and from there follow up with various techniques to finish the person. Abaniko corto here uses the power of the incoming strike to add to the power of the defensive strike while also using the stick hand arm to bump A's weapon arm out of the way allowing B to get on the outside of A.
A 2nd hit/cut can be made with the stick after it has hit through A's face to reverse it's direction and come across A's stomach where B can also follow up with various techniques by hooking A's stick hand with B's punyo.
So while both techniques might fall under "abaniko corto" I believe they are vastly different.
Mark
Not to be difficult, but I seem to remember it closer to what Mark has described. But as with anything in Modern Arnis the only Absolute is that there are no Absolutes.
Not to be difficult, but I seem to remember it closer to what Mark has described. But as with anything in Modern Arnis the only Absolute is that there are no Absolutes.
How true is that!
OP
OP
Hi Mark,
I agree with Rich on this one as well.
You are correct that planting rice can be and usually be executed with fuller range motion of motion, however, if you examime the 1980's tape series when GM Presas discusses Abanico Corto and Abanico Double Action, he describes and shows examples of planting rice (I think they were in response to an #8 and #9) with shorter motions.
He also showed the longer motions on the tape as well.
Therefore, it is possible to plant rice, hitting the floor and redirect that energy and deliver a witik for a strike or disarm.
Best regards,
Harold
I agree with Rich on this one as well
.You are correct that planting rice can be and usually be executed with fuller range motion of motion, however, if you examime the 1980's tape series when GM Presas discusses Abanico Corto and Abanico Double Action, he describes and shows examples of planting rice (I think they were in response to an #8 and #9) with shorter motions.
He also showed the longer motions on the tape as well.
Therefore, it is possible to plant rice, hitting the floor and redirect that energy and deliver a witik for a strike or disarm.
Best regards,
Harold
Hi Mark,
I agree with Rich on this one as well
You are correct that planting rice can be and usually be executed with fuller range motion of motion, however, if you examime the 1980's tape series when GM Presas discusses Abanico Corto and Abanico Double Action, he describes and shows examples of planting rice (I think they were in response to an #8 and #9) with shorter motions.
He also showed the longer motions on the tape as well.
Therefore, it is possible to plant rice, hitting the floor and redirect that energy and deliver a witik for a strike or disarm.
Best regards,
Harold
Gentlemen,
I agree with Palusut that a referral to the 1985 video series shows Abanico Corto and "Planting Rice" as the same motion - side to side and in an arcing motion. Since it was Professor doing the teaching I would tend to belive that his presentation should be the defining example. Mark is correct about the planting rice segment being against #8 & #9 strikes, but the corto blocks can also be used against #3, #4 & #5. In those cases one doen not have to strike the floor or the opponent's foot.
Morgan
modarnis
Purple Belt
I think Mark and Rich are correct. Off a slice block, the technique is initiated by your arm blade passing the opponents arm/weapon accross their center and your stick firing an abanico to the temple. The follow up techniques are the mirror image as those from palis palis on the same strike (ie: #1 palis palis technique works off # 2 line abanico corto and vice versa)
OP
OP
Ok Everyone,
Bear with me...
- Abanico Corto, general a solid block, followed by an opposing abanico strike. Please note, it can be to the temple, but one of the first applications that GM Presas shows on the Black Belt tape is to the arm.
- Planting Rice, general is a long motion but can be short per 1980's series. Please refer to to tape #1 of the 1980's series.
- Abanico Double Action is mainly a slice block, followed by an abanico to the right, then to a left, and finally a upward double zero. Please refer to to tape #1 of the 1980's series.
Hope this helps clarify things.
Thanks,
Harold
Bear with me...
- Abanico Corto, general a solid block, followed by an opposing abanico strike. Please note, it can be to the temple, but one of the first applications that GM Presas shows on the Black Belt tape is to the arm.
- Planting Rice, general is a long motion but can be short per 1980's series. Please refer to to tape #1 of the 1980's series.
- Abanico Double Action is mainly a slice block, followed by an abanico to the right, then to a left, and finally a upward double zero. Please refer to to tape #1 of the 1980's series.
Hope this helps clarify things.
Thanks,
Harold
When Professor demonstrated Abanico Corto to me it was always in reference to the sword and once you made you initial block and strike everything else was a cut.
Block a #1 strike with a #1 strike, roll your punyo off opponent's weapon to the outside (without disengaging) and strike with an abanico to the side of the head or neck.
A variation of this is, after blocking your opponents weapon use your left hand to pass their weapon to your right then abanico to their head while maintaining control of their weapon hand. This technique also turns your opponent's body and exposes their back and takes away their ability to throw a punch with their live hand.
I witnessed the first technique I described first hand in a real attack on a friend of mine who has very good skills and reaction time. He blocked, ducked, rolled outside and punyoed the attacker in the temple. And believe me there was no time for anything else. So when it came down to it this was truly a corto technique thus allowing only a punyo strike. Real time changed things but the technique works.
Sal
Block a #1 strike with a #1 strike, roll your punyo off opponent's weapon to the outside (without disengaging) and strike with an abanico to the side of the head or neck.
A variation of this is, after blocking your opponents weapon use your left hand to pass their weapon to your right then abanico to their head while maintaining control of their weapon hand. This technique also turns your opponent's body and exposes their back and takes away their ability to throw a punch with their live hand.
I witnessed the first technique I described first hand in a real attack on a friend of mine who has very good skills and reaction time. He blocked, ducked, rolled outside and punyoed the attacker in the temple. And believe me there was no time for anything else. So when it came down to it this was truly a corto technique thus allowing only a punyo strike. Real time changed things but the technique works.
Sal
OP
OP
Abanico Corto Technique from the Black Belt Series:
- Opponent attacks with a #1 strike.
- Defender counters with a #1 block, then immediately executes an abanico to the opponent's right temple, while in the midst, seizing the opponent's weapon hand.
-Defender then follows abanico with a "C-Cut", then strips the attacker's weapon with a punyo strip.
- Opponent attacks with a #1 strike.
- Defender counters with a #1 block, then immediately executes an abanico to the opponent's right temple, while in the midst, seizing the opponent's weapon hand.
-Defender then follows abanico with a "C-Cut", then strips the attacker's weapon with a punyo strip.
OP
OP
Abanico Corto Technique from the Black Belt Series:
- Opponent attacks with a #2 strike.
- Defender counters with a #2 block, then immediately executes an abanico to the opponent's left temple, while in the midst, checking the opponent's weapon hand.
-Defender then follows abanico with a #5 disarm, then finally a #5 poke.
- Opponent attacks with a #2 strike.
- Defender counters with a #2 block, then immediately executes an abanico to the opponent's left temple, while in the midst, checking the opponent's weapon hand.
-Defender then follows abanico with a #5 disarm, then finally a #5 poke.
