WIPE OUT!

[MetalBoar]

Well I’ll have to see what the physiotherapist says in a few weeks time…

It’s a persistent problem and this time it was aggravated by the very rehabilitation exercises the physio gave me!

Is this the same physiotherapist? ^^^ I may have some idea what the problem is...

 

[Gyakuto]

Is this the same physiotherapist? ^^^ I may have some idea what the problem is...

It is the same one. She knew I was a little better informed than most of her patients so she recommended these
Youtube channels

https://www.youtube.com/@bess-upper-limbs

….and her recommendations for rehab exercises fall into what is being said in them and other resources. Jo Gibson’s videos are especially good and research based. One of the take home messages is that rotator cuffs injuries take at least 3 months before things improve (in the absence of diabetes and being old) which is why I’ve waited this long before seeing the physio again.

I think the issue is I have a type III (hooked) acromial arch which means the supraspinatus tendon is constantly rubbing against the ‘roof‘ of the shoulder, even with the rehab exercises are doing this! So I’m trying to straighten it to a type II (curved) or even type 1 (flat) with the hanging exercises and then the rehab exercise can address the tendinopathy. In the mean time I’m doing the minimal recommended exercises i.e. circular arm pendulum and isometric external rotation exercises and it does seem to be improving as I get into my fourth month!

I’d be interested in your ideas, though, MetalBoar!

 

[Gyakuto]

I’m still weight training twice a week and really enjoying it and have made really good mass and strength gains. I’m at the point where someone will see me in a t-shirt and say, “Do you spend a lot of time in the gym?”

I train for about three hours per session now and at quite a pace. For the rest of the day post-training, I’m wiped out, often have muscular pain (particularly in my biceps and anterior shoulders) and need to take painkillers a couple of times and need a nap in the afternoon and can do very little. The next day I’m generally functioning almost completely normally again. I do get sick of all the protein shakes I have to get in during the training day, almost to the point of nausea, but as a veggie it’s pretty important to do.

I’ve just accepted that this is normal for me and it’s the price for being strong and having big muscles!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Last Friday was an ‘increase weight day’. I simply wore 2kg wrist-weights to provide an increment between my gym’s dumbbell increments. I also include a new abs exercise. The day after, I was in such pain, fatigued and felt very unwell necessitating oral analgesia! I tried a gentle seafront walk to flush out lactated, blah-de-blah but I had to go to bed at 8pm!

My conclusion, after talking to life-long friends, is this is all to do with advancing age, nothing more than that. I have a reduced capacity to recover because I’m getting on in years. Oh well… ‘Time is the fire in which we burn.’

I was about to post that as we age we need more recovery time. Does not mean you can't workout like you do, you jsut can't go heavy as often.... try 2 days week heavy and give yourself at least 2 full day, I recomed 3, for recovery.

I’m 54 years old

Take it from me youngin, been there done that..and over done it more than once...... and I am soon to be 31....for the second time
I also had to deal with injury, joint replacement and arthritis, but I have 2 heavy days a week (Monday and Friday or Saturday), total gym and Bowflex 3 days a week, Bowflex heavier on the heavy days. and I am now trying to get at least 20 minutes of aerobic, 6 days a week....love my Sundays off

 

[Oily Dragon]

I’m still weight training twice a week and really enjoying it and have made really good mass and strength gains. I’m at the point where someone will see me in a t-shirt and say, “Do you spend a lot of time in the gym?”

I train for about three hours per session now and at quite a pace. For the rest of the day post-training, I’m wiped out, often have muscular pain (particularly in my biceps and anterior shoulders) and need to take painkillers a couple of times and need a nap in the afternoon and can do very little. The next day I’m generally functioning almost completely normally again. I do get sick of all the protein shakes I have to get in during the training day, almost to the point of nausea, but as a veggie it’s pretty important to do.

I’ve just accepted that this is normal for me and it’s the price for being strong and having big muscles!

I recommend swimming post workout,for a couple of reasons you probably already know. Same day, next day, whatever.

One of the reasons for the discomfort after lifting is microtorn muscle fiber, and your whole bodys musculature is what keeps you standing. So naturally sore muscles = you want to lie down and take load off those muscles. Shoulders, neck, back, legs especially.

But in a pool, that pull of gravity is lifted and it becomes much easier to move around, stretch etc which is important for promoting healing. Whether it's warm or cool, water submersion is just a soft of natural cast that takes pressure off of your sore parts, not to mention it's a relaxing way of chilling out.

And you can still take the nap after. For me, working out, a nice swim, and a nap are a trifecta. There is probably science research out there that supports all this, but personal anecdote, it works.

 

[Gyakuto]

I recommend swimming post workout,for a couple of reasons you probably already know. Same day, next day, whatever.

One of the reasons for the discomfort after lifting is microtorn muscle fiber, and your whole bodys musculature is what keeps you standing. So naturally sore muscles = you want to lie down and take load off those muscles. Shoulders, neck, back, legs especially.

But in a pool, that pull of gravity is lifted and it becomes much easier to move around, stretch etc which is important for promoting healing. Whether it's warm or cool, water submersion is just a soft of natural cast that takes pressure off of your sore parts, not to mention it's a relaxing way of chilling out.

And you can still take the nap after. For me, working out, a nice swim, and a nap are a trifecta. There is probably science research out there that supports all this, but personal anecdote, it works.

And if one can’t swim?

 

[Oily Dragon]

And if one can’t swim?

Never too late to learn! Swimming is a fundamental survival skill. Even the standard survival swim (staying afloat in one place) can be learned in a single day. Then learning a few strokes in deeper water can be mastered within a week (especially if you have decent muscle mass).

I used to be part of a local swim club but it got $$. My current gym has a few different types of pool, indoor/outdoor lap pools, and an outdoor open pool that is only about 4 feet deep. Shallow pools are typically a safe place for people who have never learned to pick up the skill. From a muscle recovery pov, you're still standing on the floor of the pool, but all your muscles become bouyant, allowing you to stretch out and heal without requiring a lot of paddling, cardio etc.

If you put your head under the water and stretch you can literally heat your bones and sinew. I love that.

I did end up searching for a decent article.

How Swimming Can Boost Your Recovery - Muscle & Fitness

Taking a swim after a workout can leave you feeling rejuvenated.

www.muscleandfitness.com

 

[Gyakuto]

Never too late to learn! Swimming is a fundamental survival skill. Even the standard survival swim (staying afloat in one place) can be learned in a single day.

I can swim but very inefficiently. I can do the star fish thingy.

I used to be part of a local swim club but it got $$.

This is the issue. I looked at adult swimming classes but they’re so expensive. I’d rather drown than spend that kind of money!

 

[Oily Dragon]

I can swim but very inefficiently. I can do the star fish thingy.

This is the issue. I looked at adult swimming classes but they’re so expensive. I’d rather drown than spend that kind of money!

I edited that last post quite a bit. You might want to reread. Added some info.

Keep in mind I don't mean swimming laps, just immersion in a shallow pool and moving around is great for recovery.

There is usually a local YMCA. That's probably the cheapest pool access.

A home based lap pool pays for itself compared with a lot of yearly gym/pool membership costs.

 

[Gyakuto]

I changed gyms recently to a more serious sort of place and is cheaper than my last one. There are some seriously enthusiastic members, including a couple of amateur female bodybuilders but everyone is so pleasant and willing to chat. I really enjoy it in there and after my 3+hr workout, I still don’t want to leave.

I seem to have found the solution to my extreme post-workout muscle pain and fatigue. I do 20 mins moderate cardio on the cross trainer at the end of my weights session and that seems to do the trick. I’m still tired afterwards but I don’t have to take painkillers and lie on the sofa, softly groaning!

I’ve solved my dislike of protein shakes too: I make them with unsweetened soy milk which makes them much tastier than when made with water and it ups the amount of protein.

I’m feeling very positive!

 

[drop bear]

I changed gyms recently to a more serious sort of place and is cheaper than my last one. There are some seriously enthusiastic members, including a couple of amateur female bodybuilders but everyone is so pleasant and willing to chat. I really enjoy it in there and after my 3+hr workout, I still don’t want to leave.

I seem to have found the solution to my extreme post-workout muscle pain and fatigue. I do 20 mins moderate cardio on the cross trainer at the end of my weights session and that seems to do the trick. I’m still tired afterwards but I don’t have to take painkillers and lie on the sofa, softly groaning!

I’ve solved my dislike of protein shakes too: I make them with unsweetened soy milk which makes them much tastier than when made with water and it ups the amount of protein.

I’m feeling very positive!

Yeah. Twice a week is hard. More is generally better.

 

[Fungus]

There are some seriously enthusiastic members, including a couple of amateur female bodybuilders but everyone is so pleasant and willing to chat. I really enjoy it in there and after my 3+hr workout, I still don’t want to leave.

I see pictures coming...

I seem to have found the solution to my extreme post-workout muscle pain and fatigue. I do 20 mins moderate cardio on the cross trainer at the end of my weights session and that seems to do the trick. I’m still tired afterwards but I don’t have to take painkillers and lie on the sofa, softly groaning!

Did you get like extreme fatigue or extreme pain?

My experience is that after either a good kumite with hard contact, or after an extreme session where you train muscles in some other way, and push yourself, I ALWAYS get after 24 hours symptoms that feels like a mild inflammatory response, and it lasts for say 2 days and they goes away. During this time you feel a bit like the onset of getting sicks and soreness. But I find this normal, and I love the feeling!

This is why hard training or fightinh every day wouldnt work. but 2 or maybe 3 times a week at most would work for me.

I asked for extra treatment from a fellow practictioner on the last visit to the karate gym and now on day 5 my arms are still enjoying his knuckles. The stomach muscle pain was there only for 3 days and then was totally gone I love this feeling, I wouldn't think of taking pain killers during this time and miss the pleasurable pain.

I am curious if you are experiencing excessive pain, or if we just enjoy the post-workout/fight inflammation differently?

Age is likely an issue in general, but we are more or less of similar age (50s), and with the excepttion of my back issue, I am in better shape (strenght and cardiowise) after doing kyokushin for jsut a few years than I ever was.

 

[Gyakuto]

I see pictures coming...

It’s hard to take photos with an erection

Did you get like extreme fatigue or extreme pain?

Fatigue and disproportionate pain. I trained as a younger so have a very good idea of what is ‘normal’ although I perform a much greater volume these days (six sets of ten reps for all exercises).

My experience is that after either a good kumite with hard contact, or after an extreme session where you train muscles in some other way, and push yourself, I ALWAYS get after 24 hours symptoms that feels like a mild inflammatory response, and it lasts for say 2 days and they goes away. During this time you feel a bit like the onset of getting sicks and soreness. But I find this normal, and I love the feeling!

Yes you’ve mentioned your sadomasochism before! I developed flu-like symptoms without the pyrexia.

I am curious if you are experiencing excessive pain, or if we just enjoy the post-workout/fight inflammation differently?

I found the muscle pain, and tiredness very unpleasant to the point it stopped me carrying out normal activities of daily living. Ibuprofen helped the symptoms but I only took a dose if I was particularly bad.

Age is likely an issue in general, but we are more or less of similar age (50s),

That’s what I put it down to (I’m 15 years old, by the way)

and with the excepttion of my back issue, I am in better shape (strenght and cardiowise) after doing kyokushin for jsut a few years than I ever was.

I have bigger muscles than ever but whether that’s ‘better’ is subjective. I have neither pair of the ‘aerobics’ (ACE) gene so my progress in cardiovascular fitness is slow and marginal. In all honesty, I’d rather be cardiovascularly fit than have big muscles.

 

[Fungus]

I developed flu-like symptoms without the pyrexia.

Yes, that's a good way of describing it, likely caused by som mild muscle inflammation to deal with either tissue beating or train to the limit I supposed?

Anyway I enjoy it. Good stuff. 1-2 days after a decently hard fighting session, I am in euphoria mixed with a mild flu-like feeling.

 

[Gyakuto]

Yes, that's a good way of describing it, likely caused by som mild muscle inflammation to deal with either tissue beating or train to the limit I supposed?

It seems some people’s immune systems react more violently to the byproducts of muscle damage…that’s probably me plus I’m clearly a wimp!

I am in euphoria mixed with a mild flu-like feeling.

I think you release high levels of endogenous cannabinoids in response to exercise. That gives you feelings of euphoria and feeling chilled. In contrast, I think my body produces high levels of naloxone in response to exercise

 

[Fungus]

It seems some people’s immune systems react more violently to the byproducts of muscle damage…that’s probably me plus I’m clearly a wimp!

I think you release high levels of endogenous cannabinoids in response to exercise. That gives you feelings of euphoria and feeling chilled. In contrast, I think my body produces high levels of naloxone in response to exercise

There seems to be a huge variability between individuals.

I think what I experience is not what''s called "runners high", becuase as far as I understand is endorphins released during or shortly after excercise and may at least last for hours. During the peak exercise, I do not really feel endorphins, then I'm just riding a challenge, and it's a mental drive that brings me through the fatigue.

What I experience, is noticable around 16-24 hours after, and lasts for 1-2 days. This is the same time window where noticable onset of soreness immunological recovery is expected to set in? And this is where the pain is intermixed with endorphins I think. I think this mechanism is distinct from runners high. If I squeeze the old bruises i immediately get more endorphins. So maybe my body has a very high own painkiller production, that is slightly overtuned. This is the delayed "reward", coming a day after.

It can also be a related to the fact that I often had some chronic pain all the time, and whever I get some bruises or something, it takes over and it's a mental releift to not have to focus on the chronic pain.

I have no reference to similar intensity training as young, so I have no reference at all. If that is good or bad I don't know. It's just all a new nice experience to me.

 

[Gyakuto]

There seems to be a huge variability between individuals.

I think what I experience is not what''s called "runners high", becuase as far as I understand is endorphins released during or shortly after excercise and may at least last for hours.

Interestingly, endorphins have been shown to be unable to cross the blood/brain barrier, so endogenous cannabinoids are responsible for the ‘exerciser’s high’.

What I experience, is noticable around 16-24 hours after, and lasts for 1-2 days. This is the same time window where noticable onset of soreness immunological recovery is expected to set in? And this is where the pain is intermixed with endorphins I think. I think this mechanism is distinct from runners high. If I squeeze the old bruises i immediately get more endorphins. So maybe my body has a very high own painkiller production, that is slightly overtuned. This is the delayed "reward", coming a day after.

Or you’re very sensitive to what you do produce. Do you happen to know if you’re sensitive to opiates? I am very sensitive and they suppress my breathing quite profoundly even with low doses…as I discovered when I had a kidney stone!

. It's just all a new nice experience to me.

Well enjoy it before they tax it!

 

[Fungus]

Interestingly, endorphins have been shown to be unable to cross the blood/brain barrier, so endogenous cannabinoids are responsible for the ‘exerciser’s high’.

Or you’re very sensitive to what you do produce. Do you happen to know if you’re sensitive to opiates?

I don't think so - Years ago when my ischias nerve was totally blocked due to pain caused muscle tension, I could not sleep at all!, I got some strong morphine-like substances on prescription, they worked as planned without side effects. Taking away the pain, broke the vicious circle, and made me relax muscles and ease the nerve jam.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yeah. Twice a week is hard. More is generally better.

Strange but true.