Zero Tolerance

[OULobo]

In another thread the subject of improper punishments in schools was brought up. This got me fired up on a subject that has been a peeve of mine for some time. The idea of "zero tolerance" in schools. This is the policy of mandatory punishments for the all infraction of school rules regardless of the outcome, motivation, or severety. What is particularly disturbing is the government's(local, state and federal) reluctance to monitor and judicate these issues and the local school board's bull-headedness in refusing to admit their mistakes and reverse their decisions.

I'll leave the subject open now for people to post opinions and examples while I get my examples ready to post.

 

[Ceicei]

Zero tolerance? I hate these two words.

I wish they would consider mitigating circumstances. Consider age, experience, background, who they were with, intent, comprehension of policy, etc.

I wish we would go with the "case by case" policy instead of "zero tolerance" policy. That would make more sense and be generally less destructive for all involved.

I'm guessing litigation played a great deal into this change with society that caused this draconian approach. However, "they" have to realize that being to the exteme with their blanket decisions can result in litigation too.

- Ceicei

 

[OULobo]

Here are some resources. I'll admit that I am against zero tolerance so these are mainly "anti" opinions and fact sheets. I would have posted some "pro" resources also, but I had some trouble finding any.

BTW this isn't because one is right and the other is wrong, I think it is because the "anti" cases are easier to spot because they can be pretty outrageous.

Here you go:
http://crime.about.com/library/blfiles/blzero.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/educate/ednews3.htm
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16305
http://www.thisistrue.com/zt.html
http://dir.salon.com/mwt/feature/2001/08/29/zero_tolerance/index.html
http://www.ztnightmares.com/
http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/zerotol/zero-tol.html

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Ceicei
I'm guessing litigation played a great deal into this change with society that caused this draconian approach. However, "they" have to realize that being to the exteme with their blanket decisions can result in litigation too.

- Ceicei

I agree, but the problem is that recently instances like Columbine have made it very easy for the schools to win on policy grounds because of the backlash experienced.

 

[Ceicei]

You know, the idea of Orwell's "1984" book isn't too far off from how things are going today.

I wonder if a revolution would eventually have to happen to bring zero tolerance to an end?

- Ceicei

 

[TheRustyOne]

We had zt for anything dealing w/ alcohol or ciggys in my high school. and yet, the allowable hem line of a girls shorts dropped from the middle finger when the arms are relaxed at the sides to the tip of the thumb. thats a good, what, two inches, which can be difference between shorts with you butt hanging out and just a lot of leg. and yet, spaghetti strap shirts and wildly dyed hair was so "distracting" to be worn. personally, i'd be more distracted with a girl's butt hanging out of her shorts than a lot of shoulder and back shown.

...and i still say the only reason i didn't get sent home for wearing a Bacardi shirt was because it lacked the bat.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Ceicei
You know, the idea of Orwell's "1984" book isn't too far off from how things are going today.

I wonder if a revolution would eventually have to happen to bring zero tolerance to an end?

- Ceicei

pick a response:

"Power to the People!! We want a change!"

or

"Becareful people have diappeared for saying similar things as that."



I agree its time for a change.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Oh come on, you guys mean to tell me we shouldn't be flogging 8yr olds who violated the no weapons policy by bringing in the plastic picknic knife to cut her chicken, or expelling and publically whipping through the streets of the kid who shared his inhalor (thereby saving his girlfriends life) and in doing so violated the districts drug policy?

Next thing you'll be saying is that we don't need to send all these little perverts in training to reeducation classes after they pervertedly hug each other....

:soapbox:

(Note: I'm being sarcastic... )

 

[TheRustyOne]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Oh come on, you guys mean to tell me we shouldn't be flogging 8yr olds who violated the no weapons policy by bringing in the plastic picknic knife to cut her chicken, or expelling and publically whipping through the streets of the kid who shared his inhalor (thereby saving his girlfriends life) and in doing so violated the districts drug policy?

Next thing you'll be saying is that we don't need to send all these little perverts in training to reeducation classes after they pervertedly hug each other....

:soapbox:

(Note: I'm being sarcastic... )

Damn straight! If they won't give us a knife on airline flights then why should those little picknickers have one! *slams fist down dramatically on table, table breaking, and falling on floor*

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have a hard time looking at and bliveing all these people who think nothing "bad" will happen if they enforce "their" ideas on everyone else.
some folks just have no idea what reality is, they live in a closed little world of "perfect" and "OH , we cant have that"

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
I have a hard time looking at and bliveing all these people who think nothing "bad" will happen if they enforce "their" ideas on everyone else.
some folks just have no idea what reality is, they live in a closed little world of "perfect" and "OH , we cant have that"

Either that, or these same people think that everybody else is a blood-thirsty murderer that can't be trusted with even a nail clipper. Better protect them from themselves.

- Ceicei

 

[MA-Caver]

Originally posted by OULobo
pick a response:

"Power to the People!! We want a change!"
or
"Becareful people have diappeared for saying similar things as that."

I agree its time for a change.

Indeed it is time for a change but who's going to initiate it? US? Some whacko militant outta Michigan or Montana or some other outta the way place? A special interest group? Who would now stand up to our government and say ENOUGH! And bigger question... will they listen?
My oldest brother used to tell me that I don't help the democratic process by not choosing to vote, well gee bro, haven't found a candidate WORTH voting for...
But he's right because as long as we keep voting these morons who make up these laws and re-elect them we're gonna get the zero-tolerance and other idiotcies that find their way into our day to day lives.
Power is a strange thing. We'll meet a good honest candidate with good and honest intentions while they're running for office (city, state, national) but seems more often than not the power that is behind those desks when they sit down...gets them by the throat/balls/wherever and makes it mighty hard not to let go or abuse.
Only because IMO we give it to them by just whining and not instigating our consitution right to say NO to this or that bill.

Remember folks... I LOVE MY COUNTRY... I got issues with our government. It is time for a change indeed.
:asian:

 

[theletch1]

Either that, or these same people think that everybody else is a blood-thirsty murderer that can't be trusted with even a nail clipper. Better protect them from themselves

You mean, everyone else ISN'T a blood-thirsty murderer? Damn, that just blows my entire outlook on society out of the water.

Zero tolerance translates to me as a policy put in place when institutions have been beleagured by so many lawsuits from people who do not know how to behave in public that even the slightest mis-step would lead to financial disaster that any step at all is out of the question. It also reeks of laziness in as much as the investigative work to find the facts in a situation, to take the time to find out the "why" of something would require an actual effort. That's not my job is the battle cry for these folks. No, it may not be in your job description to break up a fight in the hallway if you're a teacher; not your job to come to the aid of a woman being stabbed on the sidewalk. No, it's not in your job description..... but it should be in your character description.

 

[Spud]

I'm not following you MACaver -

Do you vote or not?

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Spud
I'm not following you MACaver -

Do you vote or not?

No he doesn't, according to what he said...

Originally posted by MACaver My oldest brother used to tell me that I don't help the democratic process by not choosing to vote, well gee bro, haven't found a candidate WORTH voting for...

- Ceicei

 

[theletch1]

My oldest brother used to tell me that I don't help the democratic process by not choosing to vote, well gee bro, haven't found a candidate WORTH voting for...

All to often it comes down to voting for the lesser of two evils. But it must be done if any change is to happen at all. 'Course with the advent of the 'puter age we could just do away with congress, put up a website and have the public vote on everything bill by bill.:shrug:

 

[Disco]

As was pointed out, were only voting for "the lesser of two evils".
They, the poeple that are in positions of power due largely to wealth, are allowing us to vote for one of the people they choose. We have the two party system, Dems/Reps. Have we ever seen anybody, other than the person "choosen" by the party leaders, run for any high office? You can have an Independent try to run, but it comes down to money and influence, which the Independent would not have. Your vote in reality means nothing, because of the Electoral college. How many persons have won the popular vote of the people and lost the election because of the EC vote. That's just an example at the high end of the spectrum. Big money runs this country and is running it into the ground. Everything in this country is for sale and is being sold off. Everyday in the news we hear about more and more American jobs are being lost because the corporate powers are making bigger profits with cheap oversea's labor. Eventually when there are no real jobs left in America and therefor Americans can no longer afford to buy anything, mabey just mabey then something might happen. Problem there is it's to late and the damage is not reversable. Our judicial system is just as bad. It's run by lawyers, set up by lawyers and all evolving around the allmighty dollar. I'm just stating what's in front of everybodies eye's. I love this country and have served in several ways. But in my opinion, I see our citizens being flushed down the toilet of corporate and political indifference and greed.
:soapbox:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ross Perot.

1st time through, ran on own money...made significant dent in system.

2nd time through, laws had been changed preventing one using own money to run. (We will ignore for a moment the mention of 'threats')


People forget that there are currently over 20 individuals in the running. Find one n vote for em. You are not limited to only two choices. Yes, the candidate from the 'hot poker in the bum' party hasn't really got a chance, but hey, if he's your man (or gal) then go cast your vote.

After all....each vote cast does count, even if as a statement against the 'powers that be'.

Just, do your own thinking...and don't count on the comercials to tell it all.

:asian:

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Disco
As was pointed out, were only voting for "the lesser of two evils".
They, the poeple that are in positions of power due largely to wealth, are allowing us to vote for one of the people they choose. We have the two party system, Dems/Reps. Have we ever seen anybody, other than the person "choosen" by the party leaders, run for any high office? You can have an Independent try to run, but it comes down to money and influence, which the Independent would not have. Your vote in reality means nothing, because of the Electoral college. How many persons have won the popular vote of the people and lost the election because of the EC vote. That's just an example at the high end of the spectrum. Big money runs this country and is running it into the ground. Everything in this country is for sale and is being sold off. Everyday in the news we hear about more and more American jobs are being lost because the corporate powers are making bigger profits with cheap oversea's labor. Eventually when there are no real jobs left in America and therefor Americans can no longer afford to buy anything, mabey just mabey then something might happen. Problem there is it's to late and the damage is not reversable. Our judicial system is just as bad. It's run by lawyers, set up by lawyers and all evolving around the allmighty dollar. I'm just stating what's in front of everybodies eye's. I love this country and have served in several ways. But in my opinion, I see our citizens being flushed down the toilet of corporate and political indifference and greed.
:soapbox:

Amen, brother, but there are signs of change. Money doesn't mean everything, atleast it didn't to Ross Perot. In the past elections there have been two examples of people from neither of the two popular parties having a huge influence. Perot and Nader, while not showing too much in the actual elections, showed that their candidacies influenced many to leave the traditional two parties. This is a start. In the last election the issue of the electoral college was brought to the attention of the public and there has already been action to abolish the outdated system. While I can't say the coarse we are on is bright I think it has the possibility of improvment. If there is one thing that terrifies the current rich and powerful it is the threat of revolution.

 

[OULobo]

Whilst doing a little surfing, I came upon this site with some interesting examples and viewpoints.

http://crime.about.com/library/blfiles/blzero.htm