Your training regimen

[Thewayofthewarriorispeace]

Im just curious, how do you train? I know it will vary greatly from person to person, and Im interested in getting some different views of training.

Do you train only internal or do you add external (pushups, weights, weapons, etc. also, what kind of weights/external methods do you prefer)? Do you train mostly alone or do you have friends to train with on a daily basis? When you train alone (and with others), do you focus on individual techniques, forms, weapons, drills, or a combination? How often and how long do you train on a day to day basis? How many times do you do the SLD/other forms? Do you consider training strictly when you practice, or do you see your training in every aspect of your life?

When I train, I normally do mostly internal forms (SiLimDao, advanced SiLimDao) and some other internal training. I try to do the SLD at LEAST 3 times a day, when I have time I do more, probably about 7-10 times medium speed. When I do it less I try to slow it down a lot more. I also train with the staff, I dont know any forms but I think it makes excellent resistance/external training. I know some of the shaolin form that I practice on occasion. Sometimes Ill go over techniques with my brother just so they dont leave me, but I hardly ever get to train with my fellow kung fu peeps unless Im in class. Also, I think about it almost 24/7, alot about the internal aspects of rooting and relaxation, moving from the center, moving the body as a unified piece- I try to apply these to every movement of my day.

-keith

 

[yipman_sifu]

Im just curious, how do you train? I know it will vary greatly from person to person, and Im interested in getting some different views of training.

Do you train only internal or do you add external (pushups, weights, weapons, etc. also, what kind of weights/external methods do you prefer)? Do you train mostly alone or do you have friends to train with on a daily basis? When you train alone (and with others), do you focus on individual techniques, forms, weapons, drills, or a combination? How often and how long do you train on a day to day basis? How many times do you do the SLD/other forms? Do you consider training strictly when you practice, or do you see your training in every aspect of your life?

When I train, I normally do mostly internal forms (SiLimDao, advanced SiLimDao) and some other internal training. I try to do the SLD at LEAST 3 times a day, when I have time I do more, probably about 7-10 times medium speed. When I do it less I try to slow it down a lot more. I also train with the staff, I dont know any forms but I think it makes excellent resistance/external training. I know some of the shaolin form that I practice on occasion. Sometimes Ill go over techniques with my brother just so they dont leave me, but I hardly ever get to train with my fellow kung fu peeps unless Im in class. Also, I think about it almost 24/7, alot about the internal aspects of rooting and relaxation, moving from the center, moving the body as a unified piece- I try to apply these to every movement of my day.

-keith

All I can tell you is that I would never train in weight lifting since it contradicts the Wing Chun theory of flexibility, positioning, and punch speed. I do Sui Lim Tao whenever I have time, since it's almost the little idea with 95% of the system's concept. I also train alot on wall bags and the dummy. Regarding the Chi Sao, I always take care of not making it that fancy rather than trying to seek the gap in the fastest time possible, becuase many trainers get confused in following the hands rather than seeking gaps, and that comes by practising Chi Sao as a sparring method and competition, and this is wrong. Regarding weapons, I don't train in weapons like the pole or the double knives, since I beleive that Wing Chun is all about what is effective and direct, the effective in weapons would be a gun, so that is my best choice.

 

[Stu]

yup, i'd agree with yipman_sifu there on the weight training point. It can contradict and damage your wing chun traing. The physical excersise that I do revolves around my own body, sit ups press ups etc.. plus lots of drilling the wing chun techniques over and over again.. thousands of times.

My training week goes pretty much like this.
I go to classs and train with my Sifu 3 times a week
I do the forms everyday.
I use my wooden dummy everyday - as soon as I get home from work i'll be on it for 20 mins.
I'm lucky enough to have it set up in a spare bedroom, so whenever I have a spare 5 mins its really easy to practice on. Although my fiancee does get a little annoyed when i'm using it when I've just got ready to go out for a nice evening out with her. while i'm waiting for her to put her makeup on and i'll working up a sweat in my freshly ironed shirt.

I also use my 3 section wall bag 2- 3 times a week. I have to use it outside and its usually raining in Warrington , England so my wall bag usage usually depletes during the winter months... need to twist my fiancee's arm to let me set it up inside the house.

Also i find myself walking around the garden in Biu Ma stepping if i'm mowing the grass, in in the house if i'm hoovering (you end up with a nasty pattern on the grass if you do 45 stepping) or stood in kim yeung ma stance or biu ma whenever i'm waiting for someone, or washing dishes etc.... I get funny looks but i get them when i'm acting "normal" so i don't really care.
I basically think of it as, how can I apply this household job or this spare time to wing chun training.. theres usually a way.

 

[monji112000]

I normally train Monday & wens 6:15-9:30pm and Friday 6-7pm. (Sometimes also on the weekends)


Normally its something like :
First form, stretch, Chi sao , fighting drills , guided sparring, exercise.


Chi sao is normally working on a technique or a specific idea, and then free Chi sao.


Fighting drills can start with working alone in front of a the mirror doing a technique or combining a techniques. Then Working with another person or a three way drill. Also Circle drills are common also.
Normally sparring with focus on what we did earlier.


Its normal for things to have a set idea for the whole day. So it could be working on turning the horse, in chi sao, drills, sparring ect.. or Using the Qwan sao in Chi sao, sparring, ect..


I used to do weight lifting allot, it can be very beneficial to any athlete. If done correctly and gear for your “sport”, the only problems can come from being sore when you are training. I have changed my auxiliary training to more cardio, heavy bag, Wing Chun Tire, Long pole drills, and high rep low weight lifting. I have been experimenting with CST ideas, and using it for training Wing Chun ideas.


When I had more time I would do a set solo workout. X # of this type of punch or turn my horse Y times then hit the bag and Tire.


I have been working more on my Shock pushups, and other related exercises.


Weight training has nothing to do with flexibility, speed or positioning. I have had the pleasure of meeting pro lifters who are more flexible than you could even imagine. Sure once you get too big its becomes a major issue.. but really most people will not get that big. MAYBE a inch or two at most. Its best to have a strong muscle to work with.

 

[Secret_of_Steel]

I do more external training, weight lifting, cardio and isometrics. Mostly in solitude, so mirrior training and creativity are my best pals. I don't have a wooden dummy so I practice with trees. Making one would be interesting. When I have used the wooden dummy in clubs I have used a rubber knife just to experiment.

 

[ed-swckf]

I do more external training, weight lifting, cardio and isometrics. Mostly in solitude, so mirrior training and creativity are my best pals. I don't have a wooden dummy so I practice with trees. Making one would be interesting. When I have used the wooden dummy in clubs I have used a rubber knife just to experiment.

You used a rubber knife on a wooden dummy? Why?

 

[Secret_of_Steel]

To try trapping with something in my hand.

 

[ed-swckf]

To try trapping with something in my hand.

Explain, i'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean you have a rubber knife in your hand and use that to trap, or the other hand?, what are you trapping on the dummy?

 

[Secret_of_Steel]

I was just experimenting, try it sometime. Look to see where the rubber knife can touch while you have a reference point.

 

[Ali Rahim]

Im just curious, how do you train? I know it will vary greatly from person to person, and Im interested in getting some different views of training.

Do you train only internal or do you add external (pushups, weights, weapons, etc. also, what kind of weights/external methods do you prefer)? Do you train mostly alone or do you have friends to train with on a daily basis? When you train alone (and with others), do you focus on individual techniques, forms, weapons, drills, or a combination? How often and how long do you train on a day to day basis? How many times do you do the SLD/other forms? Do you consider training strictly when you practice, or do you see your training in every aspect of your life?

When I train, I normally do mostly internal forms (SiLimDao, advanced SiLimDao) and some other internal training. I try to do the SLD at LEAST 3 times a day, when I have time I do more, probably about 7-10 times medium speed. When I do it less I try to slow it down a lot more. I also train with the staff, I dont know any forms but I think it makes excellent resistance/external training. I know some of the shaolin form that I practice on occasion. Sometimes Ill go over techniques with my brother just so they dont leave me, but I hardly ever get to train with my fellow kung fu peeps unless Im in class. Also, I think about it almost 24/7, alot about the internal aspects of rooting and relaxation, moving from the center, moving the body as a unified piece- I try to apply these to every movement of my day.

-keith

Wing Chun right from the start must be train accordingly within “Sil Lum Tao” little ideal or "mind set”, applications are nothing without a strong understanding of little ideal, nothing more than getting self in the way, making the little ideal a major problem.

Form, stance, close detail on structure, line theory and sensitivity is what should be study for the first two years of your wing chun studies, drills and applications are last.

 

[Thewayofthewarriorispeace]

As far as weight training and other external methods, I believe training with 'functional strength' in mind is key. This means training with relatively small weight, preferably with a natural object (wooden staff, sand, water) with many reps to get the tensile strength without compromising speed, sensitiviy, or flexibility. Also I think that ANY external training should ALWAYS be preceded by, and followed by, complete relaxation and stretching starting from the neck down, then SLD. I also think that each exersize should focus on a specific muscle group while keeping all of the others relaxed. I understand that technique should always come first, but I think its important to get very strong without bulking up, especially when youre young (as my Sifu says alot - he says to get strong while youre young, and when you get older work on refining your technique) because in a real encounter strength will come in handy, esp. if more than one guy gangs up on you. I also think that the Li (mind) and Qi energy can 'help along' the muscles to gain extraordinary strength without bulking up or necessarily looking strong, so therefore the more 'quality' muscles you have will exponentially increase your power. I mean, most (if not all) internal disciplines, even wing chun, have some external training in them, and vice versa. So most of all I think its important to have a good balance between strength and technique, with much more empasis on the latter.

Ali Rahim, I understand what you are saying about focusing on SLD and stances for the first two years - my Sifu talks about this ALL the time. He says, if you cant win the fight with Pok Sau Tan Sau, you arent ready for any more advanced techniques. He says they used to do SLD fifty - seventy times a day. The thing is, our class is mixed up with no sashes, white sashes all the way up to red sash - so he shows a lot of advanced technique (for their benifit) which I admit I am not really ready for. So I really am trying to focus on the SLD for now, but Im writing down and trying to remember all of the techniques he shows us, so when I am ready, I can practise practise practise.

Thanks for your replies and input

 

[Ali Rahim]

As far as weight training and other external methods, I believe training with 'functional strength' in mind is key. This means training with relatively small weight, preferably with a natural object (wooden staff, sand, water) with many reps to get the tensile strength without compromising speed, sensitiviy, or flexibility. Also I think that ANY external training should ALWAYS be preceded by, and followed by, complete relaxation and stretching starting from the neck down, then SLD. I also think that each exersize should focus on a specific muscle group while keeping all of the others relaxed. I understand that technique should always come first, but I think its important to get very strong without bulking up, especially when youre young (as my Sifu says alot - he says to get strong while youre young, and when you get older work on refining your technique) because in a real encounter strength will come in handy, esp. if more than one guy gangs up on you. I also think that the Li (mind) and Qi energy can 'help along' the muscles to gain extraordinary strength without bulking up or necessarily looking strong, so therefore the more 'quality' muscles you have will exponentially increase your power. I mean, most (if not all) internal disciplines, even wing chun, have some external training in them, and vice versa. So most of all I think its important to have a good balance between strength and technique, with much more empasis on the latter.

Ali Rahim, I understand what you are saying about focusing on SLD and stances for the first two years - my Sifu talks about this ALL the time. He says, if you cant win the fight with Pok Sau Tan Sau, you arent ready for any more advanced techniques. He says they used to do SLD fifty - seventy times a day. The thing is, our class is mixed up with no sashes, white sashes all the way up to red sash - so he shows a lot of advanced technique (for their benifit) which I admit I am not really ready for. So I really am trying to focus on the SLD for now, but Im writing down and trying to remember all of the techniques he shows us, so when I am ready, I can practise practise practise.

Thanks for your replies and input

Anytime, I love to talk wing chun to anyone who will listen and reply back, because I always want to know what’s on other peoples minds. I’m not the best but I know what I am, and that’s a good wing chun hoe.

Stay up little brother, and snatch their backs clean out with lop sao, through relaxation and chum (sinking energy).

 

[ed-swckf]

I was just experimenting, try it sometime. Look to see where the rubber knife can touch while you have a reference point.

Why, whats the benifit of this? What are you training? its certainly not knife skills, where couldn't the knife touch? you are stood in front of a dummy that is inanimate, this really baffles me.

 

[Tanizaki]

All I can tell you is that I would never train in weight lifting since it contradicts the Wing Chun theory of flexibility, positioning, and punch speed.

I disagree with this idea. Weight training does not make one less flexible. Bruce Lee, who had a WC core, also disagreed and thought that too many martial artists ignored or pay too little attention to physical conditioning. Weight lifting is simply good for one's health. I think anyone who is medically able should have a program of cardiovascular exercise as well as resistance training.

Harm flexibility and speed? To the contrary, I think weight training would enhance your performance.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I disagree with this idea. Weight training does not make one less flexible. Bruce Lee, who had a WC core, also disagreed and thought that too many martial artists ignored or pay too little attention to physical conditioning. Weight lifting is simply good for one's health. I think anyone who is medically able should have a program of cardiovascular exercise as well as resistance training.

Harm flexibility and speed? To the contrary, I think weight training would enhance your performance.

I have sparred with body builders and weightlifters. They are the slowest MA practitioners around. It certainly is useful to be strong in certain arts such as BJJ, wrestling, karate, MT etc, but as a wing chun practitioner, weights and muscle do limit certain practices. Your arms tend to get heavier and less sensitive. How do I know this? Because I used to be extremely muscly. I have since reverted to a big fat guy instead, and found that my stick and sensitivity is better.

 

[Tanizaki]

I have sparred with body builders and weightlifters. They are the slowest MA practitioners around. It certainly is useful to be strong in certain arts such as BJJ, wrestling, karate, MT etc, but as a wing chun practitioner, weights and muscle do limit certain practices. Your arms tend to get heavier and less sensitive. How do I know this? Because I used to be extremely muscly. I have since reverted to a big fat guy instead, and found that my stick and sensitivity is better.

This is anecdotal evidence. That means it proves nothing. I could just as easily say that Bruce Lee's movements were so fast that they had to slow down footage of him, yet he was one of the most ripped to shreds people I've ever heard of.

Do I understand you correctly in that you say becoming a big fat guy makes you better? Do you think your arms are less or more heavy now that you are a fat guy? Seriously.

 

[brocklee]

I disagree with this idea. Weight training does not make one less flexible. Bruce Lee, who had a WC core, also disagreed and thought that too many martial artists ignored or pay too little attention to physical conditioning. Weight lifting is simply good for one's health. I think anyone who is medically able should have a program of cardiovascular exercise as well as resistance training.

Harm flexibility and speed? To the contrary, I think weight training would enhance your performance.

Muscles hinder your WC energy. I see this becoming another ongoing argument between the different types of WC. Some use muscles, and some dont. Being that WC main concept is smaller beats larger, I think the style that doesn't use muscles and is based off structural stability and overcoming the opponents structure is the correct way. Other people will believe differently. Muscles get in the way and require complete relaxation to have them and not use them. Muscles tense up in battle and the more you have, the less WC energy will be delivered in the punch.

It comes down to the sifu and the instruction. I believe muscles are bad for WC, but good for health and confidence. My confidence comes from my WC and not my body.

2 cents

 

[Tanizaki]

Muscles hinder your WC energy.

This is a statement without empirical support, and I don't suspect you believe it yourself. If you did, you would be finding ways to reduce your muscle mass. Are you prepared to say, "Catabolize your muscles to get better at WC"? I hope not.

I see this becoming another ongoing argument between the different types of WC. Some use muscles, and some dont. Being that WC main concept is smaller beats larger, I think the style that doesn't use muscles and is based off structural stability and overcoming the opponents structure is the correct way.

I don't think the main concept of WC is "smaller beats larger". The concept is that WC is not dependent on size, not "short guy wins".

Other people will believe differently. Muscles get in the way and require complete relaxation to have them and not use them.

I don't think WC says "don't use muscles". Otherwise, you would be prone on the floor. How do you think a punch happens?

Muscles tense up in battle and the more you have, the less WC energy will be delivered in the punch.

This is all conjectural. I have no idea what "WC energy" is supposed to mean, as that is not a term used in science. However, do you really wish to say that a person with a smaller tricep is going to deliver a more powerful punch than someone with a larger tricep, all other things (training, experience, etc) being equal?

It comes down to the sifu and the instruction. I believe muscles are bad for WC, but good for health and confidence. My confidence comes from my WC and not my body.

Too bad that the instrument of your WC is your body.

 

[brocklee]

This is a statement without empirical support, and I don't suspect you believe it yourself. If you did, you would be finding ways to reduce your muscle mass. Are you prepared to say, "Catabolize your muscles to get better at WC"? I hope not.


I don't think the main concept of WC is "smaller beats larger". The concept is that WC is not dependent on size, not "short guy wins".


I don't think WC says "don't use muscles". Otherwise, you would be prone on the floor. How do you think a punch happens?


This is all conjectural. I have no idea what "WC energy" is supposed to mean, as that is not a term used in science. However, do you really wish to say that a person with a smaller tricep is going to deliver a more powerful punch than someone with a larger tricep, all other things (training, experience, etc) being equal?


Too bad that the instrument of your WC is your body.

See, I can predict the future....an argument. Not going into this again. Was just stating that some go one way and others go the other.

Id like to explain all that it is that you quoted me on, but I would just suggest that you find a sifu and ask him yourself. This way you will actually learn what it is that I'm talking about, as appose to read about it and argue against it. If you haven't heard of WC energy, you have a bit of research to do. Our power doesn't come from muscle but rather energy transfered between the opponent and the earth. Using muscles during this transition adds resistance to your natural flow of the joints.

Keep in mind....We're talking WC right? and not WT? because that's a horse of another color, that believes its a dog.

It honestly just sounds like you're naive, which there's nothing wrong with that and isn't intended as a personal attack...I just wouldn't go breaking down peoples post because your ideology is different.

Unless you're just wanting to stir up the nest, which then the admins will hop on fast. As I have learned from experience

 

[Tanizaki]

See, I can predict the future....an argument. Not going into this again. Was just stating that some go one way and others go the other.

Just because someone is not saying, "You are 100$ correct" does not mean an argument is taking place.

Id like to explain all that it is that you quoted me on, but I would just suggest that you find a sifu and ask him yourself. This way you will actually learn what it is that I'm talking about, as appose to read about it and argue against it. If you haven't heard of WC energy, you have a bit of research to do. Our power doesn't come from muscle but rather energy transfered between the opponent and the earth. Using muscles during this transition adds resistance to your natural flow of the joints.

I'm sorry, but "energy transferred between the opponent and the earth" is nonsense. Having a physics degree simply does not allow me to swallow that. No amount of research is going to convince me that "WC energy" existed. There's potential, kinetic, chemical, and other types of energy, but no WC energy. Is WC energy measured in joules?

Natural flow of the joints? I don't even know what that is supposed to mean.

Keep in mind....We're talking WC right? and not WT? because that's a horse of another color, that believes its a dog.

I was simply speaking to the science of your claims.

It honestly just sounds like you're naive, which there's nothing wrong with that and isn't intended as a personal attack...I just wouldn't go breaking down peoples post because your ideology is different.

I don't consider mechanical physics to be an ideology.