Xingyquan - Master Bakari - A Question?

[scottm]

Hello,

I'm relatively new to practicing XY (about 3 years) and recently moved. Where I now live, the closest person who teaches XY is a gentleman named Master Alexander Bakari.

I took a trial class at his school recently and I noticed his XY is very different from the style I used to take (Hebei Style, Master Ch'ang Tung Sheng lineage). I haven't asked Master Bakari about his lineage because I didn't want to offend him by citing the differences in styles.

Has anyone heard of Master Alexander Bakari before and is he a competent teacher to take Xingyiquan from?

Thanks in advance,
Scott

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I took a trial class at his school recently and I noticed his XY is very different from the style I used to take (Hebei Style, Master Ch'ang Tung Sheng lineage). I haven't asked Master Bakari about his lineage because I didn't want to offend him by citing the differences in styles.

From the videos of him on Youtube his method is indeed strange. He starts off in a Ma bu(horse stance) instead of Santi. Being double weighted in Ma Bu is pretty much not done when doing the five element form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX_cHvxPr5k&feature=related

His Taiji form:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6zkV1oYeNU&feature=related

Others have asked him in regards to his Lineage but as far as I am aware of he has not answered. I am guessing according to his own accounts:

This is Yang Sha Hou style by way of Hou Chi Kwang. [/QUOTE
His Bagua he claims comes from Lu Hung Bin:
http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/7/Ba-Gua-Masters-Videos-332890.html
Compare:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJl8qBfwTsw&feature=related

Lu's sword routine:
http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/7/Tai-Chi-Sword-of-Lu-Hung-Bin-332903.html
compare:

**Note I am unsure if it is the same routine obviously there are differences and similarities.
More regarding Lu
http://web.comhem.se/chineseboxing/luhongbin.htm
So it may be possible he learned from him or someone from him or learned a small part and mixed other things. You could always Private message him on Youtube.

 

[scottm]

I found from another source that his XY teacher is a Master Tolo Naa (formerly Ray Cooper). I'm not familiar with him or from where his lineage comes from either unfortunately.

After looking on youtube (thanks for the idea, didn't know he was on there), I also found this video in reference to Master Bakari.

This guy apparently has a very low opinion of Master Bakari. Not sure if this guy is just a troll or if what he says about Master Bakari is accurate though. Opinions?

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

This Tolo Naa?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7eMJGeo5S0&feature=related

This is not very... ok it is just painful to watch!!

Hmm it appears Tolo Naa claims his Taiji from here:
http://taichicertification.org/default.aspx

Huo Chi-Kwang shared an apartment with Cheng man Ching and T.T. Liang I would love to have been a fly on the wall in their apartment!!

I can understand why he has a low opinion 1.He is practicing the form from Ma bu and not Santi 2.Bakari does not list his lineage.
But they do claim both Tolo and Bakari claim Lu Hung Bin.
I think both claim Huo Chi Kwang if that is true then maybe the forms came from them. But how long,how much was taught I don't know. IMO Bakari's movement is better than Tolo.

 

[scottm]

I can't say if it's THAT Tolo Naa or not, but honestly, how many Tolo Naa's can there be in the Internal Arts world?

I'd have to guess that would be the one.

I've taken Ch'ang Style Taiji for 3 years and Hebei style XY for about the same. I've also taken Bagua (BP Chen Lineage) for about 2.

(Not to speak badly of him, but) As far as Master Bakari's Bagua and Taichi go, I wouldn't take it from him.

But Master Bakari's (American) Shaolin appears to be good. I've only taken one form of XY, so couldn't really judge it. Tis why I asked.


I'm still torn as to whether Master Bakari is someone I should be or should not be taking XY from.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I can't say if it's THAT Tolo Naa or not, but honestly, how many Tolo Naa's can there be in the Internal Arts world?

Not to many I think.

As far as Master Bakari's Bagua and Taichi go, I wouldn't take it from him.

Well it is better than Tolo Naa which is why I find it hard to believe that Bakari learned from Tolo because clearly Bakari looks better.

I'm still torn as to whether Master Bakari is someone I should be or should not be taking XY from.

His Xingyi is odd. Santi is the pinnacle of Xingyi. Bakari does not seem to start from it which is odd to me. I don't know if it is a drill he is doing,a mixture of another style with it,or he clearly learned or thinks this is how it is done.
I do not know how true his lineage is but he claims to learned it from these people who do exist but how much he trained and when I don't know. You can ask him on his Youtube account. Most people you ask who is their teacher or their lineage will tell you or have a wealth of knowledge that obviously can not be learned by themselves it shows. The movement shows how advance or how well someone can do it.

 

[Tensei85]

I don't mean to be negative in any way, so hopefully the author of this thread and Mr. Bakari. Side note Tolo or anyone else that find's this thread will forgive my acclamations.

But my advice is given the mechanics and positioning as well as legitmacy are at stake. I would say its really not worth your time or money to learn a Xingyi system that seems to have forgotten the San Ti which is a pinnacle of training.

Keep searching even if you have to commute a little and find a Shifu that is legitimate and you know you'll gain something from the training.

Because personally in the past I've learned water downed versions of systems and then found the real thing and it was the difference between night-day besides that I had a lot of problematic mistakes I needed to correct and sometimes still do. So it was a major set back in my training, so really that's the question you need to ask, which you have been (thats great). But don't get me wrong, I did learn some things of value. So it wasn't a completely wasted venture.

My apologies as that was the most kid friendly post I was able to come up with.

Good luck with the search and the training.

 

[ebozzz]

What I see is the influence of African Martial Arts on what Bakari is doing. It definitely does not appear to be authentic Xing Yi to me inexperienced eyes. Check out this Shackle Hands video...

The reason that I say that I see African Martial Arts is that there is a gentleman in my area that teaches some of the same styles that Bakari does.

Moyo Nguvu

I know the instructor at Moyo Nguvu, Dr. Abayomi Obadele Meeks, as his son once attended the same school as my oldest child and they were in the same class. He is also a doctor of Chinese medicine. He also has a background in Chinese martial arts and incorporates some of the techniques & theory into his teachings.

It's just my opinion but what Bakari is teaching might be useful. It is not Xing Yi exclusively. It appears that he also mixes the training methods and that is why you see the dramatic difference in his Xing Yi when it is compared to manner in which it is performed by others. Take it for what it's worth from this inexperienced practitioner....

 

[scottm]

An update, after discussing this with several people (including Mike Patterson via email), I decided to not train with Master Bakari. However, I recently noticed that Master Bakari has posted another video on youtube.com.

Not to be negative, but after seeing this further demonstration of Master Bakari's flavor of Xingyi, I'm glad I didn't waste my time.

I'll post the video here for your reference.