WTF TKD sparring hands down?

[mango.man]

And his little temper tantrum cost him and his coach their ability to compete on the world stage ever again. Not that he had much of a career left anyway. I believe he was 35 or 36 years old.

And I didn't say ask 100 of your friends that know you are involved in TKD what sport that was. Go to a mall, or go stand on a street corner and ask 100 random people that you don't know and that don't know you. See how hip they are to the fact that it was a TKD guy.

Here is the question to ask:

"In the Olympic games that just completed, in what sport did an athlete intentionally kick a referee in the face after he was disqualified during a bronze medal round of competition?"

Here is my prediction of the types of results you will get.

50% or so will say, "Sorry I did not pay much attention to the Olympics, so I don't know".
30% or so will say some non-combat sport like gymnastics, track & field, swimming, etc.
19% will say a combat sport other than TKD like karate, boxing, judo, wrestling.
1% will say Taekwondo.

Hmmm sounds like a fun experiment. Maybe I will do it myself.

 

[Sylo]

And his little temper tantrum cost him and his coach their ability to compete on the world stage ever again. Not that he had much of a career left anyway. I believe he was 35 or 36 years old.

And I didn't say ask 100 of your friends that know you are involved in TKD what sport that was. Go to a mall, or go stand on a street corner and ask 100 random people that you don't know and that don't know you. See how hip they are to the fact that it was a TKD guy.

Here is the question to ask:

"In the Olympic games that just completed, in what sport did an athlete intentionally kick a referee in the face after he was disqualified during a bronze medal round of competition?"

Here is my prediction of the types of results you will get.

50% or so will say, "Sorry I did not pay much attention to the Olympics, so I don't know".
30% or so will say some non-combat sport like gymnastics, track & field, swimming, etc.
19% will say a combat sport other than TKD like karate, boxing, judo, wrestling.
1% will say Taekwondo.

Hmmm sounds like a fun experiment. Maybe I will do it myself.

Your right, your average person will call any martial art.. either Karate or Judo. Heck my mom after all these years, still calls what I do "Karate". My personal stake on it, was that TKD is considered the laughing stock of ALL martial arts.. in the martial arts "world". I mean, most of the world doesn't know who Bill Superfoot Wallace, or Benny the Jet Urquidez, or Michelle the Mouse Krasnoo.. even is. Unless its Chuck Norris or Steven Seagal.. or now adays.. Jet Li and Tony Jaa.. the GENERAL public still lump all martial arts together as either Karate or Kung fu. If they fight in the UFC.. its MMA.. regardless of style.

I just wish TKD still held the same status as it did, when if you told someone you had a black belt in it.. it was a big deal.

Modern TKD schools have killed that, by creating black belt factories and manufactoring sparring champions. There's no mysticism left.

all these things as a whole..

the lax rule competition sparring where you don't even need to know the art to compete.
the no hands up
the 8 year old 3rd dans
the Olympic catastrophe
youtube videos
the US karate open on ESPN..
XMA

its not one thing, but a culmination of all these things that have nearly driven what used to be an "Art" form.. into just another commercialized macho sport.

I'm just gonna pretend this stuff doesn't exist, and go on training in my art like I do currently. Hopefully TKD will get pulled from the olympics, and they will actually replace it with another "sport" like pie eating or something.

 

[BrandonLucas]

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT.

Only 2 out of the 12 friends that said something about the Olympic "incident" are in TKD, or even know what it's all about.

The fact that it happened paints a very ugly picture of the martial art to ANYONE that sees it.

Let's draw up a scenerio, shall we?

Bob, who is currently a greenbelt in TKD, goes to highschool, and is in the 10th grade. All of his friends know that he is involved in TKD, and Bob like to compete in the tournements that are within driving distance. He happens to be WTF.

Bob goes to school after the "event" happened at the Olympics, and he tells his friends at lunch about what happened. 2 of his friends have been thinking about joining TKD with Bob, so that they can hang out after school. Those 2 friends decide not to join, because they ask themselves what kind of respectable school would allow a blackbelt to act in such a manner?

So now the 2 friends go and tell their parents, who were thinking of enrolling them in the classes of what they were told, and those parents tell their buddies at work that they almost joined their kids up to join a martial art that has blackbelts that throw temper tantrums.

See where I'm going with this? I don't care WHO hears about it...word gets around. Otherwise, TKD would never have gone to the Olympics to begin with. Who would want to have an event in the Olympics that no one has ever heard of?

If you think that people in general don't know about what happened, you are wrong. Sure, not that many people know, and only a fraction of those people really care. But that fraction of people who care could have wanted to start taking TKD at one point. Now they may not want to.

I'm telling you, go to bullshido on the forums and ask around what the opinion of TKD is. It's considered a joke.

And that is what angers me.

 

[mango.man]

I have not been on that site for a very long time. As I recall though, if you do anything other than BJJ than they consider your "art" a joke. Don't they have a name for each month like this is TKD sucks month and that is karate sucks month and another is ninjitsu sucks month etc.

As I said I have not been on the site for a while, but as I remember things, if you didn't do a "art" that involved rolling on the floor with other guys, you got bagged on there.

And I don't buy your school yard analogy at all. Perhaps I give too much credit to the human race to be able to think for themselves, but I just don't see a kid going home and telling their parent "I don't wanna do TKD anymore because Angel Matos kicked a ref in the face." any more than I see a kid telling their parent, "I don't wanna do archery anymore because some guy killed a random homeless person with a bow and arrow" (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local&id=6012294) for the details of an incident that happened in my hometown a few months back.

 

[BrandonLucas]

So you're saying that people in general can't think for themselves?

Wow.

I'm not saying that everyone knows what TKD is. I'm saying that the turdhead that kicked the ref in the face isn't helping the MARTIAL ART out in the least bit.

I guess that if everyone thought the same as you, then TKD would certainly not have the rep that it does. But, unfortunately, the human race doesn't think for themselves, and the MARTIAL ART is going to go to waste because I guess no one knows about it.

 

[Sylo]

I have not been on that site for a very long time. As I recall though, if you do anything other than BJJ than they consider your "art" a joke. Don't they have a name for each month like this is TKD sucks month and that is karate sucks month and another is ninjitsu sucks month etc.

As I said I have not been on the site for a while, but as I remember things, if you didn't do a "art" that involved rolling on the floor with other guys, you got bagged on there.

And I don't buy your school yard analogy at all. Perhaps I give too much credit to the human race to be able to think for themselves, but I just don't see a kid going home and telling their parent "I don't wanna do TKD anymore because Angel Matos kicked a ref in the face." any more than I see a kid telling their parent, "I don't wanna do archery anymore because some guy killed a random homeless person with a bow and arrow" (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local&id=6012294) for the details of an incident that happened in my hometown a few months back.

I don't think this only applies to internet forums, or to even just WTF sparring, or no hands up sparring. I also think MMA has alot to do with the decline in the "Art" of martial arts. More min maxing, and gaming the system. TKD gets a bad rap for alot of different reasons.. none of which are because of the art itself, but 100% because of what we have done to make it that way. I'm all for martial arts as fitness and discipline. This is true for all martial arts... but TKD seems to get hit the hardest, and I'm not sure why. I'd rather it be like it was back in the 80s.. when it was still a spectical.

Like I said. I will study the way my instructor studied back in the 70s, and I'll continue to fight the point when someone says "I'm a black belt in sport karate".

 

[Tez3]

I don't know how it is in the States but over here the TKD made all the headlines in all the newspapers and also made headlines on all the television news. This was because the British girl was blatently denied a win in her match with a Chinese girl and the British officials put an objection in which meant the decision was overturned. The Cuban incident was secondary but shown in tandem with the misjudging story.
The media had a field day showing photos of the head kick to the Chinese girl with her head flung back and the lower lip bloody. Politicians, sports people, athletes, swimmers, everyone and their grandma had an opinion on it.
People who had never heard of TKD and didn't care about it were however talking about that incident and then the Cuban, very bad publicity.
You have to bear in mind that people equate that sort of fighting to 'karate' or 'kung fu' generally ( even confusing it with Judo, ironically as the judging/reffing was of the same standard) so anyone who had anything to do with any sort of martial arts was being asked by people how that could happen so all in all martial arts as a whole took a bit of a bashing that day.

 

[mango.man]

So you're saying that people in general can't think for themselves?

Wow.

I'm not saying that everyone knows what TKD is. I'm saying that the turdhead that kicked the ref in the face isn't helping the MARTIAL ART out in the least bit.

I guess that if everyone thought the same as you, then TKD would certainly not have the rep that it does. But, unfortunately, the human race doesn't think for themselves, and the MARTIAL ART is going to go to waste because I guess no one knows about it.

Actually I said quite the opposite, but that is the problem with you. You are trying to read between the lines of my posts instead of reading my words.

I don't now, nor have I ever tried to, hide secret messages in my posts. I say things exactly as I see them and they should not be interpreted any other way.

You are the one that gave the example of little johnny on the school yard hearing about an incident in the olympics and then telling his parents and then his parents telling his coworkers and then all of a sudden everyone is painting all of TKD with a broadbrush. Therefore you are the one saying that people can't think for themselves. "WOW"

I on the other hand stated that I give the human race credit for being able to think for themselves and not make such broad conclusions based on 1 incident.

I am with (I think it was bluekey) whoever said we are beating a dead horse several posts back. Therefore I think I am pretty much done with this thread. Don't worry, I will continue to post my thoughts and feelings in other topics on this and other forums and I am sure the this subject will be greatly discussed in the future as well.

 

[BrandonLucas]

"And I don't buy your school yard analogy at all. Perhaps I give too much credit to the human race to be able to think for themselves..."

Your words, sir.

Not reading between the lines on anything here.

We are in agreement that the tourny style should be seperated from TKD, and the tourny style should NOT be labled as a MARTIAL ART.

Maybe this would solve the whole situation. Until that happens, I'm going to train hard to be a MARTIAL ARTIST.

So I guess we should just agree to disagree on the rest.

 

[mango.man]

Right. Those are exactly my words. Me giving the human race credit for being able to think for themselves and you, by virtue of your school yard analogy, saying that the human race bases their decisions on groupthink.

And indeed we will just have to agree to disagree on everything other than the fact that the 2 should be separated.

Have a great day and best of luck to you throughout the remainder of your martial arts life.

 

[BrandonLucas]

"Perhaps I give TOO MUCH CREDIT TO THE HUMAN RACE TO BE ABLE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES...."

You might want to re-read your statement and think about it.

If you give the human race too much credit to think for themselves, that means that you think the human race CANNOT think for themselves.

If you want to make a point, make sure you type it correctly.

 

[slingblade01]

I am at a lose in understanding some of the arguments here.

Your “traditional” styles of TKD have borrowed techniques (hands-up) from boxing and you call it TKD. Study your history. Most, if not all of TKD was derived from Shotokan. For those of you that don’t know, the 5 original kwan jangs were students of Funikoshi; most were direct students. Funikoshi was not an advocate of free sparring. Simply put, he did not teach hands-up free sparring. Despite this, free sparring tournaments developed in Japan and likewise in Korean Taesoodo (TKD, early ‘60s). Due to the style of fighting then, a hands-up boxing style was practical and adopted.
To further this point, please cite any poomse that you practice in which a hands-up guarded technique is utilized.

Next, you want to block kicks. This was a great concept up until the 70s when double kicking evolved. Block one kick while the other foot is kicking you somewhere else. Also, what block do you use in your sparring training to block an old style ax kick??? This kick would snap an arm like a toothpick. BTW, the ax kick was developed in the late-60s, early-70s by Jun Yong-Ho, a sport TKD advocate, to beat the blocking game. It is also not a “traditional” kick. Can you cite the poomse where it was derived?

As you can see, blocking became obsolete in sport TKD in the early 70s and was replaced with movement … part of sport TKD’s evolution.

Now, before most of you get too defensive about your traditional TKD, I have been practicing traditional TKD for nearly 30 years and I have a great appreciation for it. Also, I have competed in about every flavor of TKD and Karate tournaments that I could find. Yet, for sparring, I managed to gravitate towards sport TKD because of the challenge, its dynamic aspect, the modern training methodologies, and its strategic complexity. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not naïve enough to believe that sport TKD is not without its share of problems, such as the WTF, USAT, and AAU. I could cite numerous problems with each organization, but that’s the nature of all sports. Nor am I naïve about problems with the rules (WTF): punching, falling, stalling. These problems are finally a concern for the WTF. But it may take a decade to iron them out. The sport is young and still evolving.

Instead of focusing on the negative aspects of sport TKD, I focus on more positive aspects such as its refinement. For instance, take Mango Man’s video of his daughter’s ax kick. This is a nearly textbook example of a modern ax kick. Yet, some of you criticize what you don’t understand. If you watch Samantha’s opponents, in both instances her opponents moved forward at the very last instant. Her technique was so good, that the opponent had no clue as to what kick was coming until it was too late. No one mentioned the attempted block in the first video. A taller, old style ax may have allowed her opponents to get under the leg and jam the kick. Hands-up, hands-down, how do block a kick for which you don’t know the angle of attack until it is un-chambering?

But getting back to hands-up or hands-down, the distance of experienced fighters has grown over the years. A good fighter should be slightly outside of head kicking range and slightly inside of body kicking range, hence, the hands down. These hands are usually found about a foot or so away from the body as to absorb the blow of the kick if the fighter finds himself unable to avoid the kick. I believe someone on this thread referred to this negatively as “passive blocking”. However you want to label it, this method of “covering” the target area has been proven to be efficient and effective time-and-time-again. Anyone believing to directly "strike the kicking leg with your block" is an effective method for blocking may want to revisit high school physics concerning collisions of stationary and moving (towards and away at different speeds) objects.
Let me leave you with this thought, instead of quickly judging other styles, why not see what you can learn or borrow first.

 

[Kwanjang]

I am at a lose in understanding some of the arguments here.

Your “traditional” styles of TKD have borrowed techniques (hands-up) from boxing and you call it TKD. Study your history. Most, if not all of TKD was derived from Shotokan. For those of you that don’t know, the 5 original kwan jangs were students of Funikoshi; most were direct students. Funikoshi was not an advocate of free sparring. Simply put, he did not teach hands-up free sparring. Despite this, free sparring tournaments developed in Japan and likewise in Korean Taesoodo (TKD, early ‘60s). Due to the style of fighting then, a hands-up boxing style was practical and adopted.
To further this point, please cite any poomse that you practice in which a hands-up guarded technique is utilized.

Next, you want to block kicks. This was a great concept up until the 70s when double kicking evolved. Block one kick while the other foot is kicking you somewhere else. Also, what block do you use in your sparring training to block an old style ax kick??? This kick would snap an arm like a toothpick. BTW, the ax kick was developed in the late-60s, early-70s by Jun Yong-Ho, a sport TKD advocate, to beat the blocking game. It is also not a “traditional” kick. Can you cite the poomse where it was derived?

As you can see, blocking became obsolete in sport TKD in the early 70s and was replaced with movement … part of sport TKD’s evolution.

Now, before most of you get too defensive about your traditional TKD, I have been practicing traditional TKD for nearly 30 years and I have a great appreciation for it. Also, I have competed in about every flavor of TKD and Karate tournaments that I could find. Yet, for sparring, I managed to gravitate towards sport TKD because of the challenge, its dynamic aspect, the modern training methodologies, and its strategic complexity. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not naïve enough to believe that sport TKD is not without its share of problems, such as the WTF, USAT, and AAU. I could cite numerous problems with each organization, but that’s the nature of all sports. Nor am I naïve about problems with the rules (WTF): punching, falling, stalling. These problems are finally a concern for the WTF. But it may take a decade to iron them out. The sport is young and still evolving.

Instead of focusing on the negative aspects of sport TKD, I focus on more positive aspects such as its refinement. For instance, take Mango Man’s video of his daughter’s ax kick. This is a nearly textbook example of a modern ax kick. Yet, some of you criticize what you don’t understand. If you watch Samantha’s opponents, in both instances her opponents moved forward at the very last instant. Her technique was so good, that the opponent had no clue as to what kick was coming until it was too late. No one mentioned the attempted block in the first video. A taller, old style ax may have allowed her opponents to get under the leg and jam the kick. Hands-up, hands-down, how do block a kick for which you don’t know the angle of attack until it is un-chambering?

But getting back to hands-up or hands-down, the distance of experienced fighters has grown over the years. A good fighter should be slightly outside of head kicking range and slightly inside of body kicking range, hence, the hands down. These hands are usually found about a foot or so away from the body as to absorb the blow of the kick if the fighter finds himself unable to avoid the kick. I believe someone on this thread referred to this negatively as “passive blocking”. However you want to label it, this method of “covering” the target area has been proven to be efficient and effective time-and-time-again. Anyone believing to directly "strike the kicking leg with your block" is an effective method for blocking may want to revisit high school physics concerning collisions of stationary and moving (towards and away at different speeds) objects.
Let me leave you with this thought, instead of quickly judging other styles, why not see what you can learn or borrow first.

A GOOD post! Mostly agree-some I don't. None the less, well stated!

 

[Sylo]

I am at a lose in understanding some of the arguments here.

Your “traditional” styles of TKD have borrowed techniques (hands-up) from boxing and you call it TKD. Study your history. Most, if not all of TKD was derived from Shotokan. For those of you that don’t know, the 5 original kwan jangs were students of Funikoshi; most were direct students. Funikoshi was not an advocate of free sparring. Simply put, he did not teach hands-up free sparring. Despite this, free sparring tournaments developed in Japan and likewise in Korean Taesoodo (TKD, early ‘60s). Due to the style of fighting then, a hands-up boxing style was practical and adopted.
To further this point, please cite any poomse that you practice in which a hands-up guarded technique is utilized.

Next, you want to block kicks. This was a great concept up until the 70s when double kicking evolved. Block one kick while the other foot is kicking you somewhere else. Also, what block do you use in your sparring training to block an old style ax kick??? This kick would snap an arm like a toothpick. BTW, the ax kick was developed in the late-60s, early-70s by Jun Yong-Ho, a sport TKD advocate, to beat the blocking game. It is also not a “traditional” kick. Can you cite the poomse where it was derived?

As you can see, blocking became obsolete in sport TKD in the early 70s and was replaced with movement … part of sport TKD’s evolution.

Now, before most of you get too defensive about your traditional TKD, I have been practicing traditional TKD for nearly 30 years and I have a great appreciation for it. Also, I have competed in about every flavor of TKD and Karate tournaments that I could find. Yet, for sparring, I managed to gravitate towards sport TKD because of the challenge, its dynamic aspect, the modern training methodologies, and its strategic complexity. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not naïve enough to believe that sport TKD is not without its share of problems, such as the WTF, USAT, and AAU. I could cite numerous problems with each organization, but that’s the nature of all sports. Nor am I naïve about problems with the rules (WTF): punching, falling, stalling. These problems are finally a concern for the WTF. But it may take a decade to iron them out. The sport is young and still evolving.

Instead of focusing on the negative aspects of sport TKD, I focus on more positive aspects such as its refinement. For instance, take Mango Man’s video of his daughter’s ax kick. This is a nearly textbook example of a modern ax kick. Yet, some of you criticize what you don’t understand. If you watch Samantha’s opponents, in both instances her opponents moved forward at the very last instant. Her technique was so good, that the opponent had no clue as to what kick was coming until it was too late. No one mentioned the attempted block in the first video. A taller, old style ax may have allowed her opponents to get under the leg and jam the kick. Hands-up, hands-down, how do block a kick for which you don’t know the angle of attack until it is un-chambering?

But getting back to hands-up or hands-down, the distance of experienced fighters has grown over the years. A good fighter should be slightly outside of head kicking range and slightly inside of body kicking range, hence, the hands down. These hands are usually found about a foot or so away from the body as to absorb the blow of the kick if the fighter finds himself unable to avoid the kick. I believe someone on this thread referred to this negatively as “passive blocking”. However you want to label it, this method of “covering” the target area has been proven to be efficient and effective time-and-time-again. Anyone believing to directly "strike the kicking leg with your block" is an effective method for blocking may want to revisit high school physics concerning collisions of stationary and moving (towards and away at different speeds) objects.
Let me leave you with this thought, instead of quickly judging other styles, why not see what you can learn or borrow first.

everything borrows something, from something.

We aren't trying to play a game of technicalities. If you want to pull up the history lessons. Are we forgetting the whole entire concept of what ALL martial arts were created to do?

Scoring points is not one of them. Unless I'm not reading the same history books you are.

Bottom line is.. there are no right or wrong answers. Only opinions.

As far as I am concerned, I will continue to study TKD in the methods that my instructor was taught back when TKD meant something more than just being a tappity tap sport. I'll compete in the tournaments that still have the old way of thinking (if that even exists anymore), and I'll still make sure that every person (martial artists or not) that I come across, know that this isn't the same art I have spent most of my life mastering. Props go out to those people like mango.man's daughter who actually took the time to learn the art, before moving to the sport.

Anyone who is wearing a black belt, that trains only in sport karate.. will continue to be fakes in my mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pR-3reEo8&feature=related

listen to what he says at the tail end of the video.

Thats basically how I feel.

 

[slingblade01]

Sylo,
The next time you feel the need to discredit a post, try to convey your points with logic, fact, or history.

I gave a brief history of the evolution of the covered block/guard, an original martial arts technique not found in any other sport. Yet, you persist to deny its merit due to its lack of tradition or “old way of thinking.” How old is old enough? Here’s a modern technique borne out of TKD, yet you profess to everyone that it’s not real martial arts. However, the boxing guard is? I find it ironic that you “watched a few ITF world championship vids, and almost noone had their hands up.” Are your seniors not worthy either? What kind of martial artist are you to have such a narrow scope?

Next, you imply that the martial arts were not created for tournaments, “scoring points”. OK, I’ll concede that point. Then why do you have an interest in competing in tournaments? Are you truly the purist that you avow to be?

On another point, I think I can safely say, based on the lack of replies, no one cares about your great disdain for sport karate. The tile of this thread does not mention sport karate. No one else in this thread discusses sport karate – only you. Is this your childish attempt to try to equate sport TKD to sport karate because of some personal past issues? Or are you just unable to stay focused on the topic?

Last, I will leave you with these two thoughts. First, go back to your video of Phillip Rhee, a listen to what he says at 8:10. Second, everyone has something to teach you but only if you are willing to learn.

 

[slingblade01]

A GOOD post! Mostly agree-some I don't. None the less, well stated!

Thank you for the compliment. What parts do you not agree with? I'm always interested in another's point of view.

 

[Kwanjang]

Thank you for the compliment. What parts do you not agree with? I'm always interested in another's point of view.

Once again, a great post!

 

[Sylo]

Sylo,
The next time you feel the need to discredit a post, try to convey your points with logic, fact, or history.

I gave a brief history of the evolution of the covered block/guard, an original martial arts technique not found in any other sport. Yet, you persist to deny its merit due to its lack of tradition or “old way of thinking.” How old is old enough? Here’s a modern technique borne out of TKD, yet you profess to everyone that it’s not real martial arts. However, the boxing guard is? I find it ironic that you “watched a few ITF world championship vids, and almost noone had their hands up.” Are your seniors not worthy either? What kind of martial artist are you to have such a narrow scope?

Next, you imply that the martial arts were not created for tournaments, “scoring points”. OK, I’ll concede that point. Then why do you have an interest in competing in tournaments? Are you truly the purist that you avow to be?

On another point, I think I can safely say, based on the lack of replies, no one cares about your great disdain for sport karate. The tile of this thread does not mention sport karate. No one else in this thread discusses sport karate – only you. Is this your childish attempt to try to equate sport TKD to sport karate because of some personal past issues? Or are you just unable to stay focused on the topic?

Last, I will leave you with these two thoughts. First, go back to your video of Phillip Rhee, a listen to what he says at 8:10. Second, everyone has something to teach you but only if you are willing to learn.

I have only one issue, and have only had one issue this entire time and I don't see how any other martial artists regardless of style would not agree.

I do no have issues with competing, or sport karate, or sport tkd or whatever. No I don't agree with them never putting their hands up, but the rules allow it so what can I do?

My issue, is that there are people who are "training" only to compete. Having never ever, took a traditional martial arts class. They are enrolling in competition schools, where they are only taught whats needed to win tournaments, and are being handed black belts, because "Hey? who wants to compete unless your black belt right?".

Thats my problem with it. I don't care at all how you want to use your skills once you have earned them. But, I do not agree with "competiton" schools who don't teach anything but tournament winning techniques, and handing them a black belt for it. Its nowhere near the same thing.

That is all.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Slingblade, fantastic post.

Anyhow, I disagree about the competition and the traditional being separated. I know that I'm probably the odd one out on that, but I feel that the sport competition is extremely useful for developing kicks, probably the single most effective tool for developing effective kicks in real time. While I feel that the woes of one affect the other, the reverse is also true; tradition and sport can enhance eachother.

I do feel that sport only schools should dispense with belts and that tournaments should be like fencing, with a-e and u ratings (a being the top competitors and e being the lowest rating, while u simply means unrated). Ratings in fencing go up and down depending on competition record and competition frequency (if you're undefeated for five years and then don't compete for two after that, you aren't 'a' rated anymore).

Daniel

 

[bluekey88]

That would certainly make sense. A reasonable compromise I think.

Peace,
Erik