WTF is this

[arnisador]

They were staring at one another's feet and had their hands in down-block position the whole time--maybe it works better when you know what's coming (virtually all round kicks).

 

[sopraisso]

They were staring at one another's feet and had their hands in down-block position the whole time--maybe it works better when you know what's coming (virtually all round kicks).

Can't help to find funny that there was no need to block anything from that distance!

Well, we have to remember it was a demo, anyway. But you see, it looks like a bad idea for the technique application. Even knowing the round kick was coming, I wouldn't try to stop it with a down block, putting at risk my hand or forearm. =/

 

[Earl Weiss]

But what also catched my attention was to see, in the second vid, that the guys did receive some round kicks with down blocks directly against the kicks movement (I mean, against the shin bone). I think this should be very dangerous if attempted for real.

If you consider that early training included forgiing the blocking as well as attacking surfaces includinmg the forearm bones, does your statement remain the same?

 

[rainesr]

Yes, we have a group that trains under this organization at my college. They are Chung Do Kwan I believe. To be honest, I was not at all impressed by them. They practice their poomse extremely fast just like the video and they spar completely non-contact. To me they look like an extremely soft style of TKD, more of a fun activity type of thing. Not exactly my cup of tea when it comes to training.

They claim to be from Chung Do Kwan on their web site too, but this is nothing like the Chung Do Kwan guys I worked out with. This is very creepy looking.

I just watched their Pyung Ahn Cho Dan, it looks like an old movie being played just a little too fast. My TSD instructors heads would explode if I did that. I can't even imagine the look of disbelief on their faces.

~Rob

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

But what also catched my attention was to see, in the second vid, that the guys did receive some round kicks with down blocks directly against the kicks movement (I mean, against the shin bone). I think this should be very dangerous if attempted for real. It's interesting, too, that I've heard of many discussions here about the application of down block (even that it was not meant to be a block). Some people sustained that it should defend a kick, but never a round kick -- instead, for example, it would receive a front kick -- what means the hand or forearm wouldn't directly receive full impact of the kick movement. So we have to agree that, if down block was never meant to be used like that (directly against the shin bone), it doesn't mean some people never teach it -- that's just what they did in some parts of the video. Honestly, I hardly believe this is an isolate case.

What I saw in both videos was not my cup of tea.

Regardless, I have better things to do than to find videos of other people and post them for the express purpose of making fun of them on an MA forum.

 

[granfire]

What I saw in both videos was not my cup of tea.

Regardless, I have better things to do than to find videos of other people and post them for the express purpose of making fun of them on an MA forum.

well, since it is TKD they are doing (sort of) and this is a TKD site...it stands to reason that their technique would be up for discussion.

After all, we did not go around and secretly video them to ridicule, they put it up to....I don't know, show off their stuff?
Once it's on Youtube, it is pretty much fair game.

 

[sopraisso]

If you consider that early training included forgiing the blocking as well as attacking surfaces includinmg the forearm bones, does your statement remain the same?

Master Weiss, I've heard about forearm fortification and work on building bone density. Surely this adds new possibilities. I can't hide, anyway, that I've also heard of other opinions about possible applications of down block ("alternative applications"), which have seemed interesting to me. Anyway, I don't have a definite opinion on this and I really have no personal experience or even enough theoretical martial knowledge to have such an immutable opinion on this. I've brought the matter mainly because in previous discussions I've seen some debate about down block application, and despite various disagreements, there seemed to be a consensus on the point I mentioned -- that the block shouldn't be used with forearm against shin bone in a round kick. Daniel's comment, in other hand, refers to an application that I've seen to be more usually accepted (striking the back of the kicking foot).

Watched the second video several times. He isn't blocking against the shin bone, but striking the back of the kicking leg with his pal-mok.

What I saw in both videos was not my cup of tea.

Regardless, I have better things to do than to find videos of other people and post them for the express purpose of making fun of them on an MA forum.

Dear Daniel, I believe most of the times the men in the video really do just the way you said. But after downloading the vid in HD resolution (720p) and watching parts in slow motion, I still have the strong impression that they <also> defend with forearm against shin bone. Maybe it wasn't exactly on purpose, I don't know. But I believe if you watch the video carefully, you will notice this, too. To show you what I'm saying, look at the images below. They correspond to the very first down blocks used by both men -- both seem to have blocked the way I said. Remember however I didn't say they defend this way all the time, I notice they also defend striking the back of the kicking leg, too, the way you described. I edited the images, once in HD the original pictures would be too big and heavy.

 

[Master Dan]

These people are choosing to get off the couch and do something positive. I think a compastionate good master could help them with a better understanding and enjoyment of what they are doing which would help with some very basic issues. Some people I can see have health limitations issues do we poke fun of handicapped or other challenged people participating. If these people by thier participation are helping others and kids God Bless Them one and all. I am impressed with the multiple boxes of video so easy to play but the negative side of Youtube is exposure to the negative only looking to dimean or poke fun. We should all look to help those less fortunate in good instructors not just put them down.

In general the Westernization and commercialization of MA has wattered down much but also has done a great good for many youth and wide range of people that would have never participated if training was still only conducted like 1960 or 1970?

I have one black belt good instructor good coach but very arthritic cannot kick to the solar plexes so what I told him stop trying to do bad raising kicks do good penetrating kicks to specific Conception 3-6 or lower at Inguinal Crease Cluster or the leg point meridians. Who does a 60 or 70 year old person need to impress Certainly not Youtube judges??

 

[Gorilla]

I don't get this thread...if you don't like what they do....don't train with them...they seem to enjoy it....who cares!!!!!


What is with the title to the thread?

If some people from the past had put up a thread like this about another style you guys would have had a cow and reported him!

Wow!!!!!!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

well, since it is TKD they are doing (sort of) and this is a TKD site...it stands to reason that their technique would be up for discussion.

After all, we did not go around and secretly video them to ridicule, they put it up to....I don't know, show off their stuff?
Once it's on Youtube, it is pretty much fair game.

Sure. Click dislike on the video and leave a comment as to why. No need to link it/post it elsewhere for the express purpose of having something to poke fun at.

Many taekwondoin, regardless of federation or association like to invoke the tenets that General Choi promoted. One of those is courtesy. Do you consider using the work of others for the express purpose of holding it up to mock courteous?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Dear Daniel, I believe most of the times the men in the video really do just the way you said. But after downloading the vid in HD resolution (720p) and watching parts in slow motion, I still have the strong impression that they <also> defend with forearm against shin bone. Maybe it wasn't exactly on purpose, I don't know. But I believe if you watch the video carefully, you will notice this, too. To show you what I'm saying, look at the images below. They correspond to the very first down blocks used by both men -- both seem to have blocked the way I said. Remember however I didn't say they defend this way all the time, I notice they also defend striking the back of the kicking leg, too, the way you described. I edited the images, once in HD the original pictures would be too big and heavy.

I'm not sure how you got this quote: I edited all of that out at 11:57 and your post is not until 2:00. I edited it out because I saw what you saw after watching the beginning another five times to be sure.

Apparently, the edit feature here is slow enough on the draw as to be pointless. Especially if it leaves edited out material into the next day.

Regardless, as I said in my final, it is not my cup of tea, nor do I have anything to say in defense of the videos; there are plenty of things that I see in both that I would consider to be trained in bad habits. But I'm not going to use their video as a means of bolstering my self esteem by holding it up for everyone to mock either.

 

[arnisador]

Surely this is fair game for discussion here--I agree that we should stay away from mockery, but not from criticism.

 

[Gentle Fist]

as long as they are having fun I guess

 

[Master Dan]

I don't get this thread...if you don't like what they do....don't train with them...they seem to enjoy it....who cares!!!!!


What is with the title to the thread?

If some people from the past had put up a thread like this about another style you guys would have had a cow and reported him!

Wow!!!!!!

I agree while it can be argued yes we can talk al day about the quality of technique in these individuals the OP starts out with a slam on WTF the premise is that all WTF looks like this? There are no bad styles only poor instructors so to make the claim that a style or entire organization is at best uneducated or imature. Early 70's I visited a very nice Shotokan DoJo to watch class never seen it before and surmized that all Shotokan was bad after watching those people? Obviously wrong errors of youth.
I think people should consider being careful what they post on Youtube and even instructors if they or do not want some of thier students to be ridiculed should keep smart phones and other recording devices banned from certain events beyond still pictures.

 

[Haakon]

I agree while it can be argued yes we can talk al day about the quality of technique in these individuals the OP starts out with a slam on WTF the premise is that all WTF looks like this? There are no bad styles only poor instructors so to make the claim that a style or entire organization is at best uneducated or imature. Early 70's I visited a very nice Shotokan DoJo to watch class never seen it before and surmized that all Shotokan was bad after watching those people? Obviously wrong errors of youth.
I think people should consider being careful what they post on Youtube and even instructors if they or do not want some of thier students to be ridiculed should keep smart phones and other recording devices banned from certain events beyond still pictures.

It wasn't a slam against TKD, it has nothing to do with the World TKD Federation (WTF), in this context WTF is short for What The F***.

 

[chrispillertkd]

I believe these folks are from GM Duk Sung Son's lineage. They acquired a habit of performing patterns as quickly as possible which makes them abrupt and un-unified with their bodily movement.

This was my reaction when seeing the video and brings up an interesting point, for me. Taekwon-Do, as developed by Gen. Choi, focuses on putting the entire body into its techniques in order to get as much power as possible. I don't know that any KKW folks would disagree with that, either. Given that GM Son was, at one point, Chung Do Kwan Jang I find it interesting that he developed his style in what appears to be a contradictory direction. While speed certainly plays a large part in power generation the isolated body mechanics would tend to work at cross purposes.

Pax,

Chris

 

[granfire]

Sure. Click dislike on the video and leave a comment as to why. No need to link it/post it elsewhere for the express purpose of having something to poke fun at.

Many taekwondoin, regardless of federation or association like to invoke the tenets that General Choi promoted. One of those is courtesy. Do you consider using the work of others for the express purpose of holding it up to mock courteous?

I am sorry, but I do have to disagree with you on that one.

I mean, yes, there should be no making fun of the gentlemen (and the allowance for age does not count since there are a few younger guys in the back) but thee is a good deal of stuff that is open for serious discussion.

Aside from the speed.

Le me ask you this: if one of these distinguished BBs walked into your place tomorrow and demonstrated their abilities in above shown manner, what would you tell them? (after you scraped your jaw off the floor, I am sure...)

The speed is one thing, but there is enough going on there that has me thinking sloppy technique. it starts with the fact that no two of the guys have the same stance and posture to begin with.

The cheery guy in the front later on displays a kick with the foot at about a 45 degree angle. If he were to connect with anything half way solid, he's be breaking his toes and probably his foot to boot!

I have seen similar display before: By people making fun of Martial Arts.
Like Chris Farley in his Ninja movie, or every other one were somebody tries to show off their -Fu skillz they don't have. At least with Lamont Sanford it was funny.

'They are getting off the couch' only reaches so far as argument.

So far I think the discussion has been relatively respectful.

 

[dancingalone]

Given that GM Son was, at one point, Chung Do Kwan Jang I find it interesting that he developed his style in what appears to be a contradictory direction. While speed certainly plays a large part in power generation the isolated body mechanics would tend to work at cross purposes.

I don't think it was GM Son that introduced this particular idiosyncrasy. There are other groups from his lineage that have more traditional mechanics, for example ChungDoKwan USA, so I am inclined to think possibly an American master came up with the idea. If he did do it, it was introduced well after a series of black belts had been raised already.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I am sorry, but I do have to disagree with you on that one.

I mean, yes, there should be no making fun of the gentlemen (and the allowance for age does not count since there are a few younger guys in the back) but thee is a good deal of stuff that is open for serious discussion.

I was referring mainly to the OP, not necessarily the discussion that followed, some of which was respectful and serious, some of which was not.

My point was that I have better things to do than to troll Youtube, find people who don't meet my standards, and then post it on another forum with a caption that is designed to invite derogatory commentary.

Aside from the speed.

Le me ask you this: if one of these distinguished BBs walked into your place tomorrow and demonstrated their abilities in above shown manner, what would you tell them? (after you scraped your jaw off the floor, I am sure...)

The speed is one thing, but there is enough going on there that has me thinking sloppy technique. it starts with the fact that no two of the guys have the same stance and posture to begin with.

The cheery guy in the front later on displays a kick with the foot at about a 45 degree angle. If he were to connect with anything half way solid, he's be breaking his toes and probably his foot to boot!

I have seen similar display before: By people making fun of Martial Arts.
Like Chris Farley in his Ninja movie, or every other one were somebody tries to show off their -Fu skillz they don't have. At least with Lamont Sanford it was funny.

'They are getting off the couch' only reaches so far as argument.

So far I think the discussion has been relatively respectful.

As I said, I offer no defense for the video, its content, or its participants; it is not my cup of tea for many of the reasons that you mentioned above. As to what I would say to them? Pleased to meet you. Thank you for stopping by.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Le me ask you this: if one of these distinguished BBs walked into your place tomorrow and demonstrated their abilities in above shown manner, what would you tell them? (after you scraped your jaw off the floor, I am sure...)

.

My comment would have been something like "thank you very much" and move on to something else ASAP.