"Wing Chun" energy
- Thread starter Tanizaki
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CuongNhuka
Senior Master
AKA Kinetic Linking. The basic idea is (as you punch), you push on the ground with your feet, the force you used goes up your leg. As you push on the ground, you straighten your knees out, the combined power goes up your thigh/hip. Then, you flex your hips forward, the new combined power goes into you arm/shoulder. As you rotate your arm, the combined force is sent into you elbow, which gains greater power as you straighten your elbow. The force is then sent into you forearm, and gains more power with the flextion of your forearm.
Keep in mind, this is not a very Wing Chun thing to do. This is more of a Western Boxing method. Or are you talking about Chi/Qi? Or, something else entirely?
Keep in mind, this is not a very Wing Chun thing to do. This is more of a Western Boxing method. Or are you talking about Chi/Qi? Or, something else entirely?
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
Tanazaki, as usual is trying to take the mick out of Brocklee who posted a good post about transfer of energies. Tanazaki was asked to keep on topic as he was waffling on, so has created this post.
Everytime you use the ground to stand in stance or to resist an oncoming force you are transferring energy to and from the ground.
There is nothing magical about this, it is scientific fact.
Cuong has hit the nail straight on the head with his explanation although Brocklee's original post covered this.
Everytime you use the ground to stand in stance or to resist an oncoming force you are transferring energy to and from the ground.
There is nothing magical about this, it is scientific fact.
Cuong has hit the nail straight on the head with his explanation although Brocklee's original post covered this.
profesormental
Brown Belt
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Greetings.
Remember that the Chinese language is by design descriptive of HOW in sensory/metaphorical terms, and the why wasn't that well known until the last quarter of this century.
So some can't explain why, yet they can teach you how.
And from that how you can eventually get the WHY and make the execution even better.
Hope that helps.
Juan M. Mercado
P.S. I can get energy from the Earth in the form of Natural Gas, Uranium and Hydroelectric plants... even though that would be from the water... and BEER!!:drinkbeer oh well...
Remember that the Chinese language is by design descriptive of HOW in sensory/metaphorical terms, and the why wasn't that well known until the last quarter of this century.
So some can't explain why, yet they can teach you how.
And from that how you can eventually get the WHY and make the execution even better.
Hope that helps.
Juan M. Mercado
P.S. I can get energy from the Earth in the form of Natural Gas, Uranium and Hydroelectric plants... even though that would be from the water... and BEER!!:drinkbeer oh well...
CheukMo
Orange Belt
CuongNhuka has it right about the way the energy works. The whole thing about muscle versus bone structure is, as Professor Mental said, somewhat mis-translated. It is not the amount of muscle you do or don't have, it is the relaxation of those muscles 99.9% of the time. The tightening of the fist at impact is an example of the .1% of time when the amount of muscle you have to tighten/tension.
profesormental
Brown Belt
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Greetings.
There are many ways to generate pain upon an attacker... there are many ways to generate impact, control, etc.
Yet the ways that are optimally efficient are another matter...
The human body has static configurations and dynamic configurations to move from one stable position to another. Impact, and transference of energy should occur on these static instances, since if you hit in a dynamic configuration, your body will absorb a lot of the impact in the joints and such, and the attacker will only get mad at you for trying... or will just look at you funny.
So in many instances... the generation of power is not the problem... the TRANSFERENCE of energy and force is...
Hope that makes sense.
Juan M. Mercado
There are many ways to generate pain upon an attacker... there are many ways to generate impact, control, etc.
Yet the ways that are optimally efficient are another matter...
The human body has static configurations and dynamic configurations to move from one stable position to another. Impact, and transference of energy should occur on these static instances, since if you hit in a dynamic configuration, your body will absorb a lot of the impact in the joints and such, and the attacker will only get mad at you for trying... or will just look at you funny.
So in many instances... the generation of power is not the problem... the TRANSFERENCE of energy and force is...
Hope that makes sense.
Juan M. Mercado
Changhfy
Green Belt
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Based on the Chinese Wu Gong.
There are three ways to transmit energy.
Tien Qi- Heaven Qi (examples energy from the Sun, stars, even ability to tap into the unlimited resevoir of Tien Qi)
Yan Qi- Human Qi (examples include pre-natal, post natal etc...)
Tu Qi- Earth Qi (examples food, water, air, etc...)
Then from here we regulate each of the five elements and their corresponding paths (Lu)
Huo-Fire-Heart
Shui-Water-Kidneys
Jin-Metal-Lungs
Tu-Earth-Spleen
Mu-Wood-Liver
These are the Yin organs.
Generally what was referenced in the other posts seems more like Gihng or Jing (transmission of Qi)
Or Gong-practise
This is basic Qi Gong knowledge.
There are three ways to transmit energy.
Tien Qi- Heaven Qi (examples energy from the Sun, stars, even ability to tap into the unlimited resevoir of Tien Qi)
Yan Qi- Human Qi (examples include pre-natal, post natal etc...)
Tu Qi- Earth Qi (examples food, water, air, etc...)
Then from here we regulate each of the five elements and their corresponding paths (Lu)
Huo-Fire-Heart
Shui-Water-Kidneys
Jin-Metal-Lungs
Tu-Earth-Spleen
Mu-Wood-Liver
These are the Yin organs.
Generally what was referenced in the other posts seems more like Gihng or Jing (transmission of Qi)
Or Gong-practise
This is basic Qi Gong knowledge.
Changhfy
Green Belt
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When starting the transmission of energy-Gihng.
It's best to start out with the Small or Little circulation- Xiao Zho Tien.
This is more of a process to jump start the energy cultivation of post natal and pre natal Qi.
Its more of a series of breathing methods and cultivating the Yi and Shen and at the same time balancing each so as not to have to much or too little of either. This will cause disruptions and distortions of the energy paths or channels.
Then from there you would generally start the cultivation of Big or sometimes translated as Grand Circulation- Da Zho Tien.
Hope this helps, this is more ways to tap into Human Qi or Yan Qi.
Take note the cultivation and transmission are two different natures. But without cultivation you can't transmission of Energy.
take care,
It's best to start out with the Small or Little circulation- Xiao Zho Tien.
This is more of a process to jump start the energy cultivation of post natal and pre natal Qi.
Its more of a series of breathing methods and cultivating the Yi and Shen and at the same time balancing each so as not to have to much or too little of either. This will cause disruptions and distortions of the energy paths or channels.
Then from there you would generally start the cultivation of Big or sometimes translated as Grand Circulation- Da Zho Tien.
Hope this helps, this is more ways to tap into Human Qi or Yan Qi.
Take note the cultivation and transmission are two different natures. But without cultivation you can't transmission of Energy.
take care,
Changhfy
Green Belt
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Are you referring to Bagua-Pak Kua?
Based on Qi gong these methods are universal, if you study Acupuncture or Chinese medicine than these concepts are required.
Its also how you diagnose certain disorders, not so much style or expression specific.
The Wu Xing is more of a universal concept. Bagua does make use of it, but so does Taiji, Tong Bei etc... Even certain families of Wing Chun(Ving Tsun).
The transmission or Gihng is also a universal concept, how a student displays it varies but the concept is universal.
Based on Qi gong these methods are universal, if you study Acupuncture or Chinese medicine than these concepts are required.
Its also how you diagnose certain disorders, not so much style or expression specific.
The Wu Xing is more of a universal concept. Bagua does make use of it, but so does Taiji, Tong Bei etc... Even certain families of Wing Chun(Ving Tsun).
The transmission or Gihng is also a universal concept, how a student displays it varies but the concept is universal.
KamonGuy2
Master of Arts
That isn't free running is it? I know that free running is called something like pak kwa
Free running is 'parkour', it's from the French Parcours du Combattant
No, Bagua is said to be the basis from which wing chun came from. Similar movements just much larger and more circular. If you think of the movie dragon, there was the guy that broke bruce lee's back. In the first fight where bruce is fighting so that he may train the "gui lo", his opponent was using Bagua. There are like 5 forms within itself. I think its white crane, tiger and .....well, I can't quite remember. Anyone know? Actually Changhfy, care to fill us in? You seem to know a great deal.
CheukMo
Orange Belt
BaGua Zhang (Baat Gua in Cantonese) is a style based on the eight (baat) trigram (gua) from Chinese philosophy. I can't add much more than that.
http://qi-journal.com/philosophy.asp?-Token.FindPage=1&-Token.SearchID=EightTrigrams
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua_(concept))
Maybe these links can help a little.
http://qi-journal.com/philosophy.asp?-Token.FindPage=1&-Token.SearchID=EightTrigrams
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua_(concept))
Maybe these links can help a little.
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
Let me add a little from my limited knowledge. Firstly, I doubt that Wing Chun and Ba Gua have too much in common. Ba Gua is based off Taoism, and was a largely Northern style, based off elements (Xing Yi is based off animals, I could be mistaken). Ba Gua is also based heavly off circular movements and steps. This conflicts with Wing Chun, which is a Southern style, and is based off straight lines.
The story I heard is that the "founder/discoverer" learned the style after watching a boy doing "Shadow Boxing" on a large stone. He asked the boy were he had learned what he was doing (the founder had a lot of experience prior to this, and noticed the power of what the boy was doing). The boy answered, and the man was later led to were the boy learned the style. The man was impressed by various demonstrations of martial skill and power, and learned the style.
When he had mastered it, he took it to the outside world, and gained a name for himself as a Boxer. And by the time he had died, he had been in (possibly) hundreds of fights, and never lost. The closest was a draw with the founder of Xing Yi.
The story I heard about the founding of Wing Chun was that a Buddist Nun founded the style by teaching it to a girl who was being harassed by a local war lord. And the Nun was a Master of Shaolin.
But, what do I know?
qi-tah
Brown Belt
I found an interesting article the other day on Ba gua that talks about the some of the meanings of the constant changes within the art - might this be a way to compare Ba gua and Wing Chun? Seen side by side they look utterly different, as CuongNhuka has pointed out (wing chun looks more like xing yi to me), but there might be deeper similarities. Certainly the two arts could have a great deal to offer each other.
Here is the article
http://xoomer.alice.it/sinicus/what_i_understand_of_bgz.htm
Here is the article
http://xoomer.alice.it/sinicus/what_i_understand_of_bgz.htm
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
Well, my understanding is that Xing Yi is based on Shaolin Long Fist, which is based on Shaolin Temple Boxing (could be the same thing, I cann't really recall), which is what Wing Chun is supposed to be based on.
CheukMo
Orange Belt
My understanding is that the animal forms come from the snake and crane forms. For this reason many Wing Chun school logos will have a snake and crane fighting...
