William Cheung's Biu Jee

[WCman1976]

I came across a video on Youtube of William Cheung doing biu jee, and I was surprised to see him stepping and doing kicks. Some sections looked like they came from the dummy form. (I'm going by the knowledge I have of the way forms are done in MY lineage. I study under Sifu Russell Cichon, who has been accepted as a student by Yip Ching.) This has me wondering how he performs sil lum tao and chum kiu. Does anyone know of any footage out there that shows him doing those forms?

 

[mook jong man]

No comment.

 

[Eric_H]

You could have googled it and found it in about 10 seconds.

 

[WingChunIan]

his book on developing chi power shows his SNT move by move and its the same as taught by both Ip brothers.

 

[WingChunIan]

No comment

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oh come on, I know you're dying to say something.:whip1:

 

[mook jong man]

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oh come on, I know you're dying to say something.:whip1:

No mate , been down that road before and nothing good ever comes of it.
Suffice to say that William Cheung's interpretation of the principles of Wing Chun are quite different to what I am familiar with .

 

[Xue Sheng]

I came across a video on Youtube of William Cheung doing biu jee, and I was surprised to see him stepping and doing kicks. Some sections looked like they came from the dummy form. (I'm going by the knowledge I have of the way forms are done in MY lineage. I study under Sifu Russell Cichon, who has been accepted as a student by Yip Ching.) This has me wondering how he performs sil lum tao and chum kiu. Does anyone know of any footage out there that shows him doing those forms?

Ask Russell, he is very good and very approachable. Can't get to Russell then, as to videos, I was once told by a Wing Chun sifu I trained with when I was not able to get to class; look to old videos of Ip Man, they are close to what he teaches.

That was a few years ago... but these days there are vids of Ip Chun and Ip Ching out there and Ip Chun is not that far off and Ip Ching.... well you know.

I even posted some here on MT in the Wing Chun section a few months back

 

[WCman1976]

Thank you all for the replies.

ERIC H,

I would have found them on Google...if I could have accessed it. I was at work when I started this thread, and for some reason a search engine like Google is blocked, but the Martial Talk boards are not. (I work the overnight shift at my job, which is very boring, so I'm glad the boards can be accessed so I can keep myself entertained!) Thanks for the links.

No mate , been down that road before and nothing good ever comes of it.
Suffice to say that William Cheung's interpretation of the principles of Wing Chun are quite different to what I am familiar with .

I wasn't saying I agree or disagree with how William Cheung interprets the principles. I was just curious about how he did the other forms. After studying how other lineages perform wing chun, I am pretty confident that I'm already matched up with the wing chun "family" that is best suited for me. However, I still enjoy researching how other people interpret the style...if nothing else, for compare and contrast purposes.

 

[geezer]

Personally I have no problem with William Cheung doing whatever he wants with the forms, and I'll leave the judgement as to whether his stuff is good or not to others. I just object to his claim that his "TWC" method is the only "real" stuff. If you are going to change stuff, like most masters do, be upfront about it.

Interestingly, the few TWC students I've run into were really nice guys and dedicated to their art. So now I'm going to shut up.

 

[WCman1976]

Personally I have no problem with William Cheung doing whatever he wants with the forms, and I'll leave the judgement as to whether his stuff is good or not to others. I just object to his claim that his "TWC" method is the only "real" stuff. If you are going to change stuff, like most masters do, be upfront about it.

Interestingly, the few TWC students I've run into were really nice guys and dedicated to their art. So now I'm going to shut up.

I agree with you there: with so many versions of wing chun out there, I think it is a bit arrogant to say, "Mine is real and everyone else is practicing a diluted, useless version."

 

[KamonGuy2]

Its not a question of what a person does with his wing chun. If a person wants to throw in a flying kick, or suplex into his wing chun, thats fine. My (and many others) problem with the Cheung, is that he claims his wing chun to be the best out there and the only 'pure' form.

Normally, even that wouldnt give me sleepless nights, but Ive experienced some of his instructors (or minions) first hand who's first question to you if you tell them you do wing chun, is 'is it pure or modified'?

Im glad to say that I have run into a couple of exceptions to the rule (Cheung lineage guys who arent preoccupied with where the chun comes from), but they are few and far between

Lets just say that the martial arts world in general arent always as friendly to chun practitioners as the members on here , and a lot of this has to do with the past, and certain 'grandmasters'

 

[WingChun]

It is said by some that william cheung only knows sil nim tao, and made up chum kiu and biu jee and his dummy form. That is why only sil nim tao looks similar.

 

[StormShadow]

It is said by some that william cheung only knows sil nim tao, and made up chum kiu and biu jee and his dummy form. That is why only sil nim tao looks similar.

seriously doubt that, but if so.. great work on his part.

 

[Eric_H]

Its not a question of what a person does with his wing chun. If a person wants to throw in a flying kick, or suplex into his wing chun, thats fine. My (and many others) problem with the Cheung, is that he claims his wing chun to be the best out there and the only 'pure' form.

He Probably is teaching a "pure" form of Leung Bik Wing Chun. Unfortunately for him, it isn't any better or worse than Chan Wa Shun's version.

 

[geezer]

He Probably is teaching a "pure" form of Leung Bik Wing Chun. Unfortunately for him, it isn't any better or worse than Chan Wa Shun's version.

I seriously doubt that William Cheung is teaching "Leung Bic" WC. His kung fu bros. claim that he learned the same material as others who studied under Ip Man at that time. But in order to substantiate his claims to having some unique knowledge ...the so-called "TWC", he had to add in-or make up some unique movements!

 

[StormShadow]

I seriously doubt that William Cheung is teaching "Leung Bic" WC. His kung fu bros. claim that he learned the same material as others who studied under Ip Man at that time. But in order to substantiate his claims to having some unique knowledge ...the so-called "TWC", he had to add in-or make up some unique movements!

Per my research, Being as though, other forms of wing chun are similar, doubt he actually made it up. Most people issue is the claim b/c they do not want to be made feel invalidated or studying something lesser. Which in turn, they reverse the same sentiments back to the source and all associated. First it was Leung Bik didn't exist. Then it was Ip man made up the story about Leung Bik then a host of other stories. What ever the truth is, he and Wong Shun Leung were credited as very good fighters in their hay day. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[WingChunIan]

I suspect that the truth is William Cheung learnt exactly the same as all of Ip Man's other students. He also used it back in his youth to fight but over time he has modified what he does/ teaches in the same way that everyone does. He will also have always had his own interpretations of things and from previous / subsequent martial arts exposure has incorporated material even if it was may years ago. Unfortunately he chose a marketing strategy that alienated him from much of the rest of the wing chun community, he's not the only one ever to have done it and he almost certainly wont be the last

 

[WingChunIan]

Interesting youtube link, probably old news to many but I hadn't seen the VTAA letter before.

It would appear that I was over generous in my previous appraisal of the situation.

 

[StormShadow]

Yep, there's letters, denials of Leung Bik's existence, claims of all sorts from both sides. Only later to find out Leung Bik actually existed as WC mentioned. Then it was the stories that he never taught bruce latter undermined by Bruce's own students that it was WSL as senior teacher and WC whom also instructed Bruce at Yip Man's request. The whole situation is pointless and no one will ever know the truth. Yip Man's version of wing chun is not the only one and it's said there are secret kwoons still practicing other versions not in really known in the western world. This is why people say just practice what you love and do your best with it. All else is futile.

 

[WingChun]

seriously doubt that, but if so.. great work on his part.

Just passing down what was told to me. What other reason could it be in your opinion?