Why is there the war on terror?

[Hand Sword]

Good point back! Why is there a war on terrorism? Because Radical Islam has declared war on the rest of the world and took aggressive actions.

 

[Seeking Zen]

Good point back! Why is there a war on terrorism? Because Radical Islam has declared war on the rest of the world and took aggressive actions.

That would be a rather long post! Many scholars have debated the core issues for years. A short answer of my opinion

Dictators / Theocratic Leaders/ Radical Icons

Dictators / Theocratic Leaders rape and pillage their own people. Control all information fed to their population. Allow Radical Icons to teach firebrand Islam admonishing the masses that the west is responsible for their plight. Thus creating a boundlessly huge unpaid army to carry out acts that destabilize regions an influence Governments that Dictators / Theocratic Leaders cannot openly. All leading to the belief that the west with it’s godless lifestyle needs to be eliminated before it envelopes Islam. In other words they fight the common denominator mentioned before…simply because they will then lose power over the masses should people have a choice.

 

[Hand Sword]

:cheers:

Good job on the summation.

 

[Don Roley]

The Taliban would have given us Osama anytime we wanted. The real reason the Taliban had to go was the failed deal with Unocal. The invasion of Afghanistan was planned long before 9/11. Hell, the US was telling the Indian government in August of 2001 that we'd have troops on the ground before the snow flew.

You had me going for a second. Next time you should put some sort of emoticon in to let us in that you are trying to make a joke. It was only the fact that you didn't post some sort of link that let me know that you were taking some self- depreciating humor at your own reputation here. :cheers:

As for the idea that Iraq was/is totally divorced from the debate about the war on terror, I will point you to an old post of mine since I don't want to type they same thing again.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=615397#post615397

And if you take a look at what Seeking Zen just wrote, you see another great point on the matter. There are a hell of a lot of things we need to deal with when talking about the problem. We just can't limit it to one aspect.

 

[Hand Sword]

The Taliban would have given us Osama anytime we wanted.

It's nice to have wishful thinking, but, if your memory serves, you'll remember, the Taliban was asked to do that, before the invasion of Afghanistan. You should also remember that they refused. Maybe, the Pakistani's will do so now?

 

[Hand Sword]

Ladies and Gentlemen of Martial Talk, the weekend has arrived. We get to go out, and do whatever, eat whatever, see whoever, and drink whatever. Our troops cannot do so, and some will never be able to do anything ever again. They are fighting, and they are not fighting ghosts. Irregardless of our politics here, or anyway, our feelings about the military, in general, or any of our beliefs to the who, where, and why of the situation, as a whole, The troops situation will not change, theyll be fighting and dying. All sides of the Aisle should acknowledge this, realize it, and show them respect. Please, all of us enjoy our free time here, and stop the fighting. All of our arguments have merit, if, at the very least, due to us expressing ourselves, in a genuine manner. None of us wanted this situation to happen. Instead of these long, well thought out, and very creative arguments, could we please use those qualities to really come up with actions and policies to address the problem.

Everyone have a great weekend, and may all of our loved ones be safe as well.

 

[michaeledward]

O.k. what would be a convincing way to deal with this problem, in your eyes? Never talked to al queda, but, talked and placated to those nations for years under his admininstration. Downsizing the military, spreading them thin, a pandering foreign policy, doesn't embolden these groups to pull of attacks here? You don't need the CiA to confirm, when a group claims responsibility for it. I say who cares which "group", As far as I'm concerned, it's one big group of jerks. You're right, they do have politics, I made a mistake. They want everything Islam, they way they see it, and everything that's not, will be destroyed.

You have entirely too many misremembered and incorrect facts driving your assumptions and positions. And when they are pointed out to you, you tell those who are exposing reality to "put politics aside".

Well, it is not political to review the facts. It is not political to demand accountability. It is just inconvienent for your argument that using the military to purge an religion from the planet.

 

[Makalakumu]

It's nice to have wishful thinking, but, if your memory serves, you'll remember, the Taliban was asked to do that, before the invasion of Afghanistan.

All the Taliban asked for when asked for was the evidence of his complicity in 9/11. The US did not provide this.

Heck, on the FBIs most wanted list, 9/11 isn't even listed as something Osama is wanted for.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

What the heck is going on here?

 

[Makalakumu]

You had me going for a second. Next time you should put some sort of emoticon in to let us in that you are trying to make a joke. It was only the fact that you didn't post some sort of link that let me know that you were taking some self- depreciating humor at your own reputation here.

It was no joke. Look it up. Anyway, nice dig...

 

[Don Roley]

All the Taliban asked for when asked for was the evidence of his complicity in 9/11. The US did not provide this.

Heck, on the FBIs most wanted list, 9/11 isn't even listed as something Osama is wanted for.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

What the heck is going on here?

You weren't joking? You honestly believe what you write?

Even for you, this is a bit beyond the norm.

 

[Don Roley]

It is just inconvienent for your argument that using the military to purge an religion from the planet.

This has been a day for amazement. Up until the election, it seemed that the case was that for the sake of the country and the men in uniform that the Iraq policy was bad.

Now we see that those most pushing for a Democrat control of the congress think that the military is being used to purge Islam from the planet. I expect that from Al Queada, not those pushing for the Democrats.

Now I know just how badly we have been misled.

 

[michaeledward]

Now we see that those most pushing for a Democrat control of the congress think that the military is being used to purge Islam from the planet. I expect that from Al Queada, not those pushing for the Democrats.

Don, you are on my ignore list, so normally I don't respond to your ramblings.

However, when you mis-state what I have said, you earn a reply.

I am not stating the the military is being used to banish Islam from the planet. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from putting words in my mouth. It seems that Hand Sword's point is that the military is the only option, and all Muslems' are the problem.

It is Ann Coulter thinking that the United States should "Invade their Nations, kill their leaders and Convert them to Christianity." That seems also to be the President's point of view. And Hand Sword's point of view. Perhaps it is yours too.

But, congratulations, you have succesfully baited me to responding to you. Good Job.

 

[Don Roley]

I am not stating the the military is being used to banish Islam from the planet. I would appreciate it if you would refrain from putting words in my mouth. It seems that Hand Sword's point is that the military is the only option, and all Muslems' are the problem.

It is Ann Coulter thinking that the United States should "Invade their Nations, kill their leaders and Convert them to Christianity." That seems also to be the President's point of view. And Hand Sword's point of view. Perhaps it is yours too.

Excuse me, I never said what you say I did. I quoted you correctly. You talked about the military being used to eliminate Islam from the planet. Hand sword never talked about that. And he never said that the military was the only thing we should use against them. He talked about how there are people using Islam as an excuse to attack the west. I do not see anything in anyone's posts about destroying Islam as you portray.

There is a threat from Islamic terrorists. That is not to say that Islam is the enemy. Hand Sword would agree with me, but your comments are totally off the mark.

BTW, I did not know I was on your ignore list, nor that people could view things by people on that list. How does that work?

 

[Seeking Zen]

Unfortunately, Bin Laden is only a face on a morphing beast. We can expect the face to change with every attack or declared victory. As for the whole UNCOL theory, just because Farenhiet 9/11 called itself a “documentary” does not mean it is factual. I think when the fate of life as whe know it is at risk. One should consider more than Michael Moores half cocked, and I might add profitable, theories. The fact that so many see this opportunists’ drool as gospel does not say much for our use or appreciation of free thought.

 

[Seeking Zen]

It seems that Hand Sword's point is that the military is the only option, and all Muslems' are the problem.

No one is saying that all Muslems' are the problem. In fact at this point in time Muslems have the most to fear from their own militant wings than we do. Moderate faithful, and peaceful Muslems are being slaughtered everyday by their "brothers". Which is why there is such a loud silence when it comes to condemnation of Islamic Terrorism. They are terrified of retaliation. Governments turn a blind eye, to hold onto power.

 

[Marginal]

You're right, But, I never said that they should nation build.

I suppose, but then, the entire post was defending nationbuilding, so you can see how I might have gotten that impression.

The millitary's role is national defense. I can see police actions falling under that umbrella (Perhaps if I sex the term up... Call it something like "surgical strikes") moreso than I can see nationbuilding.

Nation building isn't easy. I wouldn't say that the whole people are unwilling germs, huge amounts, both genders, have taken part to do this. A small group is the germ.

Split hairs it you like. Usually it's the louder more racous elements that tend to dictate how things will ultimately go. Just look to the roving bands of thugs that routinely threathened, beat up, and tortured (tarred and feathered) moderates who disagreed with them during our own nation's emergence.

No violence in the streets over our "meaningless" topics of arguiment? You're not serious on that one are you?

Well, yes. Unless you've seen mass rioting over "judical activism" that I haven't in recent weeks.

Destabilizing a government? I guess getting voted out of power wouldn't qualify.

I wouldn't count changes in power acheived exclusively though due political process as a destabialization of the government. I call that what it is, the governmental structure working as it was designed. (Hopefully the Constitution will be restored though due process as well.)

How about all of the spending/ man hours needed needed for those issues.)

I'm sorry, but that just doens't compare to people breaking into your house in the middle of the night and gunning you down because of your religious leanings.

Afghanistan is the issue that should have been dealt with fully. No argument there. I wouldn't say it's been a lack of interest though. Different set of circumstances, and it's more stable there.

Afghanistan wouldn't be an issue at all if we hadn't overstretched the millitary by going into Iraq.

What are the real solutions, instead of all of the coulda, woulda, shoulda's ?

There aren't any. We were forced into a pointless mire, and there's no way to extract ourselves from that mess without inflicting injury to both sides, and staying where we are nets us the same results.

 

[Seeking Zen]

Sorry...
Technical Question...being new!

When I go to the Screen that has the heading " Latest Reputation Received"

there are comments that I don't see listed on thread. I would like to respond to them. What am I missing?

Thanks in advance I'm sure it is something obvious and I am being a tool

 

[airdawg]

Watch how radical Islam is teaching their kids. See what radical Islam has in planned for the West.

[URL]http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/12min.htm[/URL]This is what the war on terror is about.

The scariest thing to me is, this is propaganda. I don't doubt that it is true, I know that it is, but think about it... I don't speak the language, do you? Who is really behind this war? Religion, or something else?

 

[Makalakumu]

You weren't joking? You honestly believe what you write?

Even for you, this is a bit beyond the norm.

http://www.teamliberty.net/id267.html

On June 5, 2006, the Muckraker Report contacted the FBI Headquarters, (202) 324-3000, to learn why Bin Laden’s Most Wanted poster did not indicate that Usama was also wanted in connection with 9/11. The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”

This may come as a surprise to a lot of people...

 

[Don Roley]

We have gone over that matter. And among other things, a lot of us pointed out that if Osama Bin Laden was not responsible for 9-11 but was rather framed for it by the goverment, it is silly to assume that they would not pressure the FBI to play along. There is a lot more to the story that we dealt with on that thread about 9-11 conspiracies.

But I do realize where those that oppose the idea of a war on terror come from thanks to you. It all clicked into place.

You think that a conspiracy running the goverment- call it the Illuminati, PNAC, the Zion Elders or whatever, and they did things like kill thousands of Americans on 9-11 to get an excuse to build a pipe line across Afghanistan (after someone convincing the Taliban to publically refuse to give up Osama- or maybe that was just because the entire world media is part of the plot) and seize power and you think we have to stop Evil America from destroying the world. That is why you want the US to leave Japan to deal with a more progressive nation like China without America. That way they will be controlled and more likely to bring in changes that you support.

You honestly think that if America was severely disarmed that the attacks would stop because it is all a conspiracy. America is the evil empire and must be stopped.

I am still getting my mind around this idea and bewildered as to how you can honestly think it, so maybe you can tell me if any of my points are wrong. Don't try to convince me of what you are saying, just point out how I am wrong (if I am) with the way you view the world.

Oh, and Seeking Zen, lookin the rules sections for answers to your questions. The short verison is that when someone withmore than 50 point and positive reputation gives a point of reputation they can also leave a message as well. You can tell people what you liked about what they write as well as give them some reputation. It looks like with only a few posts, a lot of people already like what you write.