suicide
Black Belt
:yoda:what did the mcdojos ever do to them ?
why are people so tramatized about mcdojos ?
- Thread starter suicide
- Start date
Bent them over the fence and did them up without Vaseline.... basically ripped them off (ok, not ALL of them do) but you have no guarantee that the art you asked them to teach (especially those that offer multiple arts) is the art that you're wanting to learn and not a little bit here and there from something else they're teaching.
Finding a dojo that teaches ONE art is probably the best way to get the pure art you've been wanting to learn.
You also (from McDojos) get rapid promotions in order to keep you interested and keep paying for more lessons... you have unclear lineage (see various threads about the importance of lineage with instructors) from your instructor(s).
And so on...
Even if you're just wanting to learn basic SD skills better to learn from someone who isn't offering a mish-mash of different art techniques and calling it good and giving you a black-belt after say 6-8 months of training once or twice a week, as opposed to someone who trains you once or twice a week for 2-4 years to obtain your BB.
Shinobi Teikiatsu
Green Belt
I've seen you post several times about how McDojo's aren't that bad, and it is true that a McDojo is not necessarily a bad dojo, however more often than not they are, and truly it is rare to find one that isn't. I think the main thing people need to be aware of is that they should look for an instructor they can respect and trust, not so much the art.
It all depends.
Many of the Mcdojos are borderline fraudulent organizations, ripping students off.
But if they're honest about what they offer - namely, sport and/or family activities and daycare with a martial arts theme -- I don't have a problem with them. It's when they pretend to offer more, whether that's the deeper spirituality of some traditional dojos or the pragmatic functional martial disciplines of others, that there's a problem.
Just like if there was a fast food restaurant offering factory burgers and fries trying to convince you it's high-end cuisine there'd be problem.
Many of the Mcdojos are borderline fraudulent organizations, ripping students off.
But if they're honest about what they offer - namely, sport and/or family activities and daycare with a martial arts theme -- I don't have a problem with them. It's when they pretend to offer more, whether that's the deeper spirituality of some traditional dojos or the pragmatic functional martial disciplines of others, that there's a problem.
Just like if there was a fast food restaurant offering factory burgers and fries trying to convince you it's high-end cuisine there'd be problem.
What he said.
Cirdan
Senior Master
The funny thing about McDojos is not that they teach crap, but that a lot of people WANT to be part of one.
Well yeah, herd mentality... be a part of it or go to the one that have flashy signs and show a list of various arts and the uneducated flock in not really understanding what kind of (non) value they're getting for their buck.
Again, I'll say that not all McDojos are bad but there are enough of the bad ones giving the good ones a bad name/rep.
I never liked any group separate or collective taking advantage of the uneducated masses. There's enough dishonesty around as there is... best to be in the know so you're not ripped off.
Uf. I dislike that "become ninja in three months" schools. They are promising black belt in that that and that time. They learn 20 arts (usually one or two instructor). And they all have high ranks.
Ok, they and their students having fun for recreation and that's good.
But for someone who respects martial arts and this is awful.
But, i think that one "real" artist shouldn't be considered about mcdojos and inproper teaching of martial arts.
To pull some analogue, pro bodybuilder have no any right to be mad on a recreative man who goes to gym 2 times a week and do nothing (ok, some bench press). Problem becomes when that buddy starts pulling aroung how he is a pro builder. But he is idiot - you can tell him something that he wan't understand because he is stupid, or you can pull him together with his bench few times. Kidding, but get it, right..
Try to apply it on arts, you are not here to be better than someone or practice more proper then someone. You are here to to be good and win your own self and to train right.
Who not ,his shame, not your bussines.
That's how i watch on "became brutal street invincible judo black belt fighter in a year and totally ignore mental state of mind" schools.
Cheers.
Ok, they and their students having fun for recreation and that's good.
But for someone who respects martial arts and this is awful.
But, i think that one "real" artist shouldn't be considered about mcdojos and inproper teaching of martial arts.
To pull some analogue, pro bodybuilder have no any right to be mad on a recreative man who goes to gym 2 times a week and do nothing (ok, some bench press). Problem becomes when that buddy starts pulling aroung how he is a pro builder. But he is idiot - you can tell him something that he wan't understand because he is stupid, or you can pull him together with his bench few times. Kidding, but get it, right..
Try to apply it on arts, you are not here to be better than someone or practice more proper then someone. You are here to to be good and win your own self and to train right.
Who not ,his shame, not your bussines.
That's how i watch on "became brutal street invincible judo black belt fighter in a year and totally ignore mental state of mind" schools.
Cheers.
We aren't tramatized, or traumatized, what we are, is disgusted that after we've spent thousands of hours of practice and study and years of lessons, blood, sweat and tears, some moron "invents" his own style, or waters down a style so much that some punk with no skills or understanding is ranked as high or higher than us.
The biggest issue with McDojos are that they are generally more expensive than a comparable school that does not follow that particular marketing plan.
Rarely is there a corresponding increase in the quality of training, and usually, the quality of training suffers to some degree.
Often, promotion standards are lower because promotions are, like everything else in a McDojo, a means of making money.
The end result is poor value for the dollar in many cases.
Some McDojos have excellent training and some are lousy. Some are not overpriced, some require a second mortgage.
For the most part, the lax promotion standards and the proliferation of child black belts has been a bit of a black eye for the martial arts' image.
Personally, I want a good school. I do not care what the format is. If it is a McDojo format with reasonable prices and quality training, then I am okay with it.
Daniel
sfs982000
Master Black Belt
Well considering what I've seen on various forums (here and on others as well), the organization I belong to is considered famous for it's McDojos. Yes I belong to the ATA currently (I know, camo belt, LOL). Personally there are some things I don't agree with, but overall it's been a good experience for me so far. Will I stay there forever, who knows, but it fits my needs right now and actually it was less of a McDojo then the only other 2 schools in my area.
There are certain things that you can control as a member, like you don't have to test on scheduled test dates if you don't feel that you're quite ready yet. I'm not belt-hungry and normally test every other cycle, just to give myself time to work on the material.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
As others have said, I have no problem with McDojos who make no bones about it. It's when they sell people on a product, preying on their desire to learn, their ignorance and popular stereotypes. And as I've said in other threads, "selling" usually involves money in a McDojo sense, but could also be simple bullshido and the desire of one person to create a weird cult following (like the 24 year old "Ninja" master phenomenon).
It's bad when the deception has to do with a "Rolex" watch or a pair of "real" RayBans. But where self defense gets involved, deception becomes much more sinister.
It's bad when the deception has to do with a "Rolex" watch or a pair of "real" RayBans. But where self defense gets involved, deception becomes much more sinister.
From what I have been able to pick up, the Songham curriculum is not bad. Like anything else, with a good teacher, it is probably very good. With a lousy teacher, it is not.
The ATA, as an organization, is very commercial and very commercially successful. Neither good nor bad; it simply is, and there is both good and bad, which is true of any large org.
The end product is the responsibility of the individual schools and instructors.
As for the camo belt, it makes a lot more sense with a matching dobok.
Daniel
The ATA, as an organization, is very commercial and very commercially successful. Neither good nor bad; it simply is, and there is both good and bad, which is true of any large org.
The end product is the responsibility of the individual schools and instructors.
As for the camo belt, it makes a lot more sense with a matching dobok.
Daniel
I like what MaCaver said! Seriously though...I really dont see whats so difficult to see, regarding the OP. I mean, if you were going to spend hard earned money on something that you thought was legit, and got shafted, well, I'd be pretty pissed off. Of course, going by your post suicide, I take it that you wouldn't be upset? BTW, I notice that you tend to ask alot of people about their training, their schools, etc., so tell us a little about you. Tell us about your training, your schools, etc. Would you be upset if someone scammed you out of money?
This not only applies to the martial arts, but anything in life. If I bought a new car, and was shafted somehow by the dealership, of course I'd be pissed. If someone buys a house, an appliance...pretty much anything. It applies to going out to eat at a restaurant. You order a steak and they try to see you something different or the steak isn't what was described on the menu, yeah, you're getting something you didn't pay for.
How would you like to train under someone who wasn't legit themselves in their training? So they're billing themselves as something they're not, to fool you, and in turn, you're paying them. Yes, I'd be pissed.
Seriously though...I really dont see whats so difficult to see, regarding the OP. I mean, if you were going to spend hard earned money on something that you thought was legit, and got shafted, well, I'd be pretty pissed off. Of course, going by your post suicide, I take it that you wouldn't be upset? BTW, I notice that you tend to ask alot of people about their training, their schools, etc., so tell us a little about you. Tell us about your training, your schools, etc. Would you be upset if someone scammed you out of money? This not only applies to the martial arts, but anything in life. If I bought a new car, and was shafted somehow by the dealership, of course I'd be pissed. If someone buys a house, an appliance...pretty much anything. It applies to going out to eat at a restaurant. You order a steak and they try to see you something different or the steak isn't what was described on the menu, yeah, you're getting something you didn't pay for.
How would you like to train under someone who wasn't legit themselves in their training? So they're billing themselves as something they're not, to fool you, and in turn, you're paying them. Yes, I'd be pissed.
The Last Legionary
All warfare is based on deception.<br><b>nemo malu
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Real "McDojo" sell ****, train **** and are all about profit over quality.
They put their students at risk selling a fantasy.
Commercial schools are ok. There is a difference. Don't know what it is? Learn.
They put their students at risk selling a fantasy.
Commercial schools are ok. There is a difference. Don't know what it is? Learn.
sfs982000
Master Black Belt
From what I have been able to pick up, the Songham curriculum is not bad. Like anything else, with a good teacher, it is probably very good. With a lousy teacher, it is not.
The ATA, as an organization, is very commercial and very commercially successful. Neither good nor bad; it simply is, and there is both good and bad, which is true of any large org.
The end product is the responsibility of the individual schools and instructors.
As for the camo belt, it makes a lot more sense with a matching dobok.
Daniel
I agree with everything you said Daniel, including the matching dobok.
So tell us...do you or have you trained in a mcdojo? Seems to me that you're pretty defensive over this subject. As for walking into one for a challenge...please, I have better things to do with my time. BTW, still waiting for some answers to my questions that I asked you in my last post.
OP
suicide
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #20
never have never will - i got lucky : from the gate i was messing with some dudes i knew were heavy duty and i picked up game from them nothing was a waste of time , and its not that its defensive it just sounds lame ? HOW MANY HERE HATE MCDOJOS FOR GIVING BBs AWAY IN RAFFLES ... or what ever ... im a about to send a shipment of tissue to MT fourm headquarters and find some of you guys a shoulder to cry on. i could see it now a bunch of MT fourm members picketing outside a so called MCDOJO
signs would read :
mcdojos
are a rash
stop giving them black belts
for cash $$$$$$
6 months of training
is way to short
stop giving belt$
or will take you to court
hey
the kid is only 5
giving him a black belt
i$ nothing but jive
:toilclaw:
signs would read :
mcdojos
are a rash
stop giving them black belts
for cash $$$$$$
6 months of training
is way to short
stop giving belt$
or will take you to court
hey
the kid is only 5
giving him a black belt
i$ nothing but jive
:toilclaw:
